Anyone know how much choline is in 1.4? Trying to decide whether to supplement and have been unable to find the info. Thanks
Actually, it looks like 1.4 does contain choline (bitartrate). It’s listed under “Vitamin and Mineral Blend”. I think additional choline would be unnecessary unless you plan on taking nootropics, which themselves would be unnecessary (most of them) unless you’re experiencing age related cognitive decline.
“What’s Soylent made of?”
Thanks. That is a veritable shitload of choline, so no supplementing for me.
Yeah, weird. That’s a lot of choline.
Not weird imo, just well above the AI of 500 mg or so. Looks like the UL is 3-5g, so seems to be on target.
Weird in that most Soylent micronutrients are at 100%, whereas choline is way over 300%.
Doing a bit more research, it appears that some people seem to have side-effects with choline supplementation in the 500 mg range, which suggests that 1.8 g choline may be too much to include in base Soylent - likely better to include less and let people supplement if desired.
After drinking mostly Soylent for the past week and weekend, I notice that I feel jittery for a few hours after I have Soylent; if I have an Ensure Complete, I don’t have this feeling. Looking at the nutrition facts for the two, I’m seeing broadly similar macro ratios (different sources of sugar, but I’m tentatively discarding that as the culprit). Most Soylent micros are anchored to the RDI so can be discarded.
One item of note is 18.85 mg of iron, which is shown as 23% RDI on the package. This is true for females, but the RDI for males is ~8 mg (see http://www.cdc.gov/nutrition/everyone/basics/vitamins/iron.html). However, this is well below the TUL (45 mg), and is approximately equal to the average daily iron consumed (for both, see http://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/Iron-HealthProfessional/).
Choline stands out as an outlier at 1887 mg. It is well above the AI of 425/550 (male/female, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Choline), but below the TUL of 3500 mg (and by almost a factor of 2 as well.) This might be the culprit, but I don’t see anything conclusive yet (though it does deviate significantly from the Soylent “baseline” of adhering to the AI/RDI.)
How much of the 1887mg is choline bitrate and how much is naturally occurring?
I once took a 500 mg choline tablet and couldnt sleep at all later that night. If other people too have any side-effects i hope they reduce the amount.
Edit: One way they can do it is switching soy lecithin with sunflower lecithin. I hope they see if its possible.
32 gram sunflower lecithin syrup contain 544mg Choline
15 gram soy lecithin granules contain 450mg Choline Thanks @CuriousBen
Or if it has been added separately too, that amount can be reduced or removed.
Because there was insufficient data to establish an RDA, we have an AI for choline of 550 men, 425 women - that’s a rough estimate of what’s adequate, and it’s not necessarily what’s optimal, but it safely avoids deficiency.
The primary side-effect of choline is that at around 7500 mg, it causes a slight decrease in blood pressure. The UL of 3500 mg for adults is based on staying well below that. (Doses above 10,000 mg lead to a variety of other symptoms, possibly including fishy body odor, vomiting, salivation, sweating…)
Soylent contains about 1,800 mg, which is between the AI and the UL. For reference, if you ate about 950 calories of eggs - about a dozen - you’d hit that same amount of choline.
I think the levels of choline in Soylent, between the naturally-occurring and the supplemental ingredients, are just fine, based on what we know.
Are you saying what i experienced is not a side-effect? or i did not experience it?
Also these should count for something:
All he’s saying is that RL made their choice based on hard data. I take nootropics too, but anecdotes from that crowd just aren’t a good source of data seeing as how most nootropic users are taking a stack of various things (daily) that could be contributing to the mood symptoms.
I didn’t deny your experience nor speculate on it.
I was answering the general question based on the established science.
That non-specific Livestrong article cites the LPI as the source of the information, which in turn cites the Food & Nutrition Board of the IOM and the reference intakes.
Here are the relevant parts of the publication in question, Dietary Reference Intakes for Thiamin, Riboflavin, Niacin, Vitamin B6, Folate, Vitamin B12, Pantothenic Acid, Biotin, and Choline ( 1998 ):
There is more detail about adverse effects, beginning at page 408, which starts like this:
The body odor, sweating, and salivation were noted among people taking dosages around 10,000 to 16,000 mg per day for extended periods of time:
The hypotension (low blood pressure) was brought on by dosages of 10 g (10,000 mg) for a shorter period:
That’s the end of the information for the general population, but they include a special section for people with specific sensitivities:
But you’ll note that the association with depression are from treatment with “large amounts.” These will likely be doses well above the 3g range, but maybe not. I haven’t hunted down that original reference. As always, individual sensitivities can matter.
‘’ There are no indications in the literature’’ says it. It means literature doesnt have it, doesnt mean there are no adverse effects.
I dont know how you drew this conclusion.
If there were adverse effects, don’t you think they would make note of them?
Those studies were old. And how exactly can ‘depression’ be found out in a clinical study looking for physical signs?
They said what they were taking, most of them reported depression/increased depression, depressive symptoms on choline supplements specifically.
Also here is what LPI says about choline.
‘‘Little is known regarding the amount of dietary choline required to promote optimum health or prevent chronic diseases in humans. The Linus Pauling Institute supports the recommendation by the Food and Nutrition Board of 550 mg/day for adult men and 425 mg/day for adult women. A varied diet should provide enough choline for most people, but strict vegetarians who consume no milk or eggs may be at risk of inadequate choline intake.’’
A lot of people self-diagnose for depression and turn out to be completely wrong. Clinical diagnosis of depression is a lot more complex than observing a few mood symptoms.