Cognitive behavioral therapy is a load of bunk. Unless you’re saying the other kind of CBT works, then I’ll take your word for it, because I’d rather not know.
OK, I’ll disagree with that. Cognitive Behavioral Therapy is one of the most effective therapeutic approaches for a variety of behavioral problems.
If it didn’t work for you, that’s too bad - it doesn’t work well for everyone. Everyone is a little different…
But CBT has a solid scientific grounding and strong evidence to support its effectiveness.
Weighed in Oct 21, 2016 355 lb gained back 60 lbs. since June. Have been trying to go “cold turkey” , have failed every time. Started to ease into it again with better results. I will not QUIT
Good to hear you’re back on the wagon!
I’ve been having a tough year, too. But if you can get back on board, so can I.
Time to just do it.
Great to see you posting your weigh-in again, and great to see you’re still over 40 pounds down from where you started — and only 29 up in the last 3 months, right? Gaining weight more slowly is frustrating, but way better than gaining weight more quickly.
I remember you said that some of the seasoning you were using on your chicken meals gave you digestive issues, and that put you off those. Have you found any enjoyable alternative meals that might do what the chicken was doing for you?
That’s the problem. The better it tastes the more calories it has, ie breaded or fried chicken or fish or vegetables with sauce. Repeatedly I would do great for 23 hours a day but then around 9:00 pm it was like a switch was thrown. the “food thoughts” would become overwhelming. I would become irritable and sneaky and knew I had 30 min left to get something delivered, (pizza, sub, etc) My personality would change until I made the call. Once I knew it was coming I’d calm down again. And yes I enjoyed eating it. No guilt until the next day when the cycle would start all over. Getting on the scale and seeing the damage done has been a help. As bad as it was it would have been worse without my SOYLENT.
I don’t know what sort of schedule you keep, but one thing that’s helped me in the past is to have a “food cutoff” time before I go to bed. For instance, if I go to bed at 10 PM, I’ll eat no later than 7 PM. Theoretically there’s no reason I can’t eat as much bad food and just make sure I get it in before 7, but in reality I eat a lot less total food. Unfortunately, at least for me, I’ve found that it only really works on a set schedule. If I keep a variable schedule I can’t stick to it for whatever reason.
Thank you for your input. I’ve struggled with "food thoughts for over 60 years I sometimes feel like a puppet on a string when they get very strong.
I ran into an article from a few years ago that suggested that only eating during a twelve-hour time span helped lose weight, even if you consumed the same amount of calories. (especially if you’re a rat!) I find that restriction workable and try to make my last meal around 4, 5, or 6, even though I am often up way past midnight.
usually it’s within an eight hour time span
There is a hormone called leptin. It is not your friend.
It was relatively unknown until fairly recently - around the turn of the millenium.
We previously thought that our fat cells were mostly inactive - that they were just storage depots for lipids. It turns out they have some activity, and one of them is the creation of leptin. If I recall correctly, the fat cells produce leptin all the time, but they also put out of boost of it when they’re actively storing fat - that is, after you eat a big enough meal to be storing lipids in your fat cells.
Leptin gets into your blood, and goes to your brain. It suppresses the food drive. This is a feedback loop that makes some sense; if you have more fat, you produce more leptin, and this tells your brain to cut back on the appetite and hunger - you don’t need to eat as much.
The catch is that the brain gets accustomed to a given level of leptin. When an individual is very obese, they produce a lot of leptin - and the brain gets used to that level of leptin as “normal.”
Then, when you lose a significant amount of fat, your leptin levels also decrease. To your brain, this lower level is abnormal. The normal limiters on the hunger drives get turned off. Your brain wants you to get back to normal.
This is a big part of why it’s so hard to maintain weight loss. Your brain is used to being in a fatter person’s body. We don’t know how long it takes before it gets used to being in a smaller person’s body, but until it does, you will psychologically and physiologically react like a person whose body is desperate to regain lost weight.
Lyle McDonald describes the brain’s acclimation to high leptin levels as similar to becoming addicted to a drug. Then, when you lose a lot of fat and the level goes down, you can look at the response you have as going into a kind of slow-motion “withdrawal.” It’s not food withdrawal… you still get food every day… it’s fat withdrawal. You brain goes into a sort of leptin withdrawal, giving you cravings and hunger, because pumping lipids into the fat cells gives it some relief. But it’s a slow-motion withdrawal, because this will last many months (years?) after you’ve lost the weight.
As with other drugs, we know that we begin to experience relief as soon as we decide to indulge… before the leptin starts to flow, before we start to eat, before the food even arrives, the decision to start the process in motion gives real relief. The desire is powerful, and it’s real.
It does go down over time, but like other addictions, starting on the drug again can easily spiral out of control. So if you “let yourself go” over the holidays or a stressful period, for example, and you eat enough to get your fat cells pushing out more leptin, you’re giving your brain the drug it craves. For most people, starting on the drug again leads to craving more of the drug, and the spiral begins anew.
So, why am I writing all of this? Besides me being a windbag, that is?
Because I’m having the same struggle as you are. At the end of the day, I know I’m not really hungry - I don’t need more calories or nutrition. But I’m feening for food. I’m thinking about what to have as a snack. Or a meal. And it’s very hard to stop myself.
I lost a small fraction of the amount of fat that you lost, and then I regained a bunch of it in recent months after a serious back injury, and I’m caught at the top of that “spiral.” Reading about your situation reminds me that I’m in a similar place, albeit in lesser degree. If it’s hard for me, I imagine it’s profoundly difficult for you.
I’m now going to try thinking of my leptin at the end of the day. I’m going to think about myself as if I’m a “fat addict” at the end of the day, and try to use that to help myself overcome the powerful psychological urge to eat more. This isn’t about fat-shaming; it’s about giving myself more willpower by being consciously aware of the brain chemistry that is conspiring against me.
End note: I don’t mean for the analogy to drug or alcohol addiction to diminish those very real addictions, nor to make light of them. But we can learn from them - especially from the willpower of those people who manage to overcome them.
I was anxiously following the leptin research when it came out. (the mice/rat experiment where they lost 2/3 of their body fat) As you probably already know when tried on humans it didn’t have the same effects, so the pill was never brought to market. (a crushing blow for me at the time) I have no doubt at some point in the future it will be figured out. By the way "…the brain gets used to that level of leptin as "normal.“Then, when you lose a significant amount of fat, your leptin levels also decrease. To your brain, this lower level is abnormal. The normal limiters on the hunger drives get turned off. Your brain wants you to get back to normal.”, sounds like the “Set Point Theory” experiment of which I was a test subject in my college days. https://medical.mit.edu/sites/default/files/set_point_theory.pdf (I was at S.U.N.Y. Albany in New York not M.I.T). As usual you’ve written a “stellar” reply I always wondered what happened to you it seemed like you fell off the face of the earth glad you’re back and hope you’re healing well.
I think you mean the bromocriptine research, which was based on the theory that it would block leptin’s or grehlin’s activity in the brain. I forget the exact mechanism, but yeah, it didn’t work that well on humans for weight loss - though it was pretty good at giving people nausea and making them feel like crap all the time. I recall an anecdote about someone saying of their course of bromocriptine, “it was pretty much like having the flu for a couple of weeks,” or something like that. It’s on the market, just not indicated for obesity. I think it’s used for things like cancer, where feeling like crap for a while may be the better alternative.
Yes, exactly… and that’s very, very cool. Thanks for participating.
And thanks for the compliment… and I must say, it’s always nice to be missed. I was never gone; I just try to be a lot less involved in the forums. Not enough time to spread around everywhere.
And also, thanks for this little interaction. I was trying to do something other than make a snack just now, so I popped in here to see if anyone “Liked” my post - and to slap myself in the face with it. It was a pleasant surprise to see your kind words.
I’ll see you at next check-in… for better or for worse!
Weighed in Nov 18, 2016 361 lb gained back 6 more lbs. Everyday is a fight. Now it’s not just the food thoughts I’m also back on a carbohydrate metabolism going through carbohydrate withdraws to change over to a fat metabolism is hell for me. I will not quit.
Prior four months were about 15 pounds per month, this one is just six. Your struggles are not for naught!
Also, it’s been a long time since you weighed more than this. The struggle to resist regaining may start to lessen up; you may be able to do another good round of weight loss, soon.
Hang in there through the holiday; try to enjoy the day, and don’t let it put you into a bad spiral.
Man that sounds tough, your body teaming up with your mind to continue giving you a hard time for changing things up. It’s great you’re continuing to slow the weight regain even through all that — 6lbs is less than 2% of your current weight.
It must be really hard going through all this, but you’re so much closer to tipping this down the other side of the hill. Persistence is paying off. You’re going to see better, easier days.
I just read through this entire discussion and saw your successes, failures, and frustrations and I feel your pain that you have at this moment. I too have been a sugar and food addict for my entire life. It was just recently that I finally realized the word “addict” is the key. I don’t mean it in the way normal people say “Oh, I am so addicted to sweets.” I mean it in the way an alcoholic is an addict of alcohol. This revelation hit home after I read this short article and watched the video linked to in the article. (I ended watching the whole video series.) My addiction to sweet foods and cheap carbs is a real addiction and as such I decided to treat it that way. I have admitted to myself that I have a physical, and by extension, mental addiction which means that I can not EVER have these things again. Just as a cocaine addict can’t have a single line of coke without relapsing again, I can’t have sugar again. Not one cookie, not one bowl of ice cream, not one candy bar. Even diet sodas or snacks with artificial sweeteners are off of the plate (pun intended) as they trigger my brain almost as much as sugar itself. I am a sugar carb addict and I can not have these things again, ever. Ordinary people do not get it. How could one cookie ruin everything? I’m sure that you know why it can. It starts a sugar/carb addict down a dark spiral that ends up with us binging, depressed, and in an insulin/leptin cycle all over again.
Yes, the consequences of relapse from sugar/carb addiction are not as bad as a heroin or alcohol relapse and because of that fact people are quick to dismiss sugar addiction as a faux addiction. But many addicts of hard drugs who also have sugar addiction say that the feeling they get from both are quite similar. Six weeks ago, I cut off foods high in sugar and processed carbs that trigger my binge/manic/depression cold turkey and the differences I have happened are life changing. No more uncontrollable urges to eat when I’m not hungry. No more binging or eating so much that I feel uncomfortable. No more sleep issues. No more manic or depression swings. I eat when I am hungry but know when to stop without thinking about it. My taste for sweets and carbs has disappeared. If I do get something even slightly sweet, it turns me off and I can stop eating it. The joint pain in my hips, knees, and feet that was caused by inflammation is gone. I can concentrate on reading/studying/work in a way I haven’t in years. Lots of energy and wherewithal to get done what needs to be accomplished everyday. I’ve lost 7 lbs without changing anything else in my life. This really works…at least for me.
I use Soylent for about 1500-1800 calories a day and then I eat a healthy dinner with no fried foods or simple carbs like pasta. (If I have pasta, it’s whole wheat or some sort of rice/quinoa blond.) I shoot for 2500-2800 calories in a day. Considering I’m somewhat active and 6’2", it seems to be my sweet spot for eating without being hungry. I eat snacks like whole grain tortilla chips with hummus or air popped popcorn. Of course, it helps that I’m vegan but being vegan did not stop me from carrying an extra 70 lbs in the 18 months since I stopped eating meat and dairy. There’s lots of cookies, cakes, snacks, etc. that are vegan and they all have high sugar and processed carbs and I ate the heck out of them. I’m not advocating for veganism. Just dropping the sugar and processed carbs is the key.
I really hope that you can get back on track. I hope that I can inspire you to at least consider dropping sugar and processed carbs. Doing so can help you get in the proper mental state to stay on track…permanently. Coming from someone who has been obese most of their life, I can’t express how much that the revelation that I am an addict has changed my life in a positive way. Maybe I’m barking up the wrong tree, but even if so, I wish you the best of luck in coming to terms with your eating. I know what you are going through.
What can I say. You know what I’am talking about. I’ll check out the videos. Eventually I’ll succeed because I keep trying “one day at a time” .
I am also a “foodie”. I LOVE to cook and I LOVE to eat delicious food. But I can’t cook delicious meals every single day (it can get very expensive in terms of money and/or time). Soylent is great for me during the week because I don’t even have to think about food. I’ll just have some Soylent and maybe some eggs throughout the day, and that’s it.
The weekends are a different story though… I do my cooking Saturday!