Basic Income & Soylent


#21

need a travel ban on robots


#22

The notion of what government is “supposed” to do is normative, not factual. People will and do disagree on that. I suspect that the increasing obsolescence of human labor by automation is going to cause a lot of people to rethink what they believe a government should do. (THANKS A LOT, TRISH.)


#23

If everyone received $1000 a month, the economy would adjust by inflating prices on everything until $1000 is just as good as $0 is today.


#24

UBI isn’t universally agreed upon. Go figure.

I like the gist of it, but I’m not american.

Capitalism isn’t the economic pinnacle of eternity, that’s for sure.


#25

I’ve heard similar stuff about raising the minimum wage… i.e. some folks earning $14/hr resented the minimum going to $15/hr because even though they’re getting more, it also elevates those making way less to the same level.

I find the whole idea of “fairness” between liberals and conservatives rather interesting. Taking from the rich to provide for the poor is seen as fair by liberals (i.e. Obamacare, welfare) whereas everyone (without regard to means) getting the same is seen as fair by conservatives (i.e. Ryancare, UBI).

Both sides have merit, but I think perspective makes compromise increasingly less likely.


#26

I was in Chongqing last year and I must say, I saw nothing of the fascist hellhole you speak of. If my memory serves right, China is actually a communist state with several autonomous regions, incorporated zones and free-market emulating cities.

I know people tend to talk about things they know nothing about, but this is the second time I’ve heard a place I’ve been is a “fascist hellhole” just here on discourse. I find it evermore odd that someone would talk about a place they’ve never been.


#27

Ding! Ding! Ding! This guy gets it.


#28

I like how you assume I’ve never been to China. I also like how you assume the one part of China you’ve been to (for business/vacation/vising friend) is a good indicator of the state of the entire country & it’s government. You probably think little of the farmers who’re being forcibly moved into cities, the ghost cities created by misspending & the endless censorship of anyone who speaks badly about the government.


#29

I’m just surprised that you would describe China as fascist. I don’t really see it.

This gives me an idea of where you’re getting your news from. I’m sorry we couldn’t agree but it is what it is.


#30

[quote=“sylass94, post:29, topic:27058”]This gives me an idea of where you’re getting your news from. I’m sorry we couldn’t agree but it is what it is.[/quote]I’m guessing the answer is either:

  1. Not China.
  2. Sources you’ve already decided you disagree with before you read their articles.

Here’s a video about Tianducheng & specifically what I was thinking about when I posted. Some cities like it have improved, but largely due to people being forcibly relocated by the government.


#31

A youtube video with the comments disabled. lol


#32

Has anything of value ever come from Youtube comments? Nice job refuting what I’ve said BTW.


#33

Guys please be wary of the topic at hand and what you discuss.


#34

To answer your question: Yes, I have seen many valuable YouTube comments. Hope that helps!


#35

Ah yes, the eternal wish for “something for nothing,” for a “free lunch.” I wonder why this idea keeps coming back. Maybe we live in the Gamer Age in which young people are too lazy to get a job because it interferes with their gaming. So wouldn’t a universal basic income be great? Even a limited basic income only replacing welfare/unemployment/payments to those that need it ignores normal human behavior. These people would spend it on lotto tickets, alcohol and cigarettes. The biggest problem with the UBI, as I see it, is that it would simply expand the money supply. Housing/rent and prices for everything else would just go up and you would be no better off than you were before. Germany has a type of guaranteed income if one is long term unemployed called Hartz 4. They pay for a reasonable apartment, your heat and give you about $400 a month pocket money. The only “drawback” is that they make you go to job interviews and attend job retraining programs. Everyone getting Hartz 4 whines about how dictatorial the Hartz 4 bureaucrats are and how little pocket money they get. The free apartment feature has driven up rent prices for even very shoddy apartments. No, there is no free lunch.


#36

Yeah, or it could be that for various reasons it isn’t as easy to get a reasonably paid job as it was for previous generations due to AI slowly replacing jobs. But sure, just fall prey to juvenoia.


#37

I agree with the last half of your analysis. It could be likened to the increasing tuition and school book fees in college, a result of universities knowing the government will give/loan college students a hunk of money. No longer is poverty an excuse for not being able to afford college.

That said…

Heard it all before, brother. All due respect, this is a very, very, very old song to sing.

“When I was young, we were taught to be discreet and respectful of elders, but the present youth are exceedingly disrespectful and impatient of restraint”.

~ Hesiod, 8th century BC

The timeless critique of the youth might at first encourage a dull yawn, but I think these delusions require a more complicated explanation than “the aged population is just being a bunch of grumps”. Psychologically we all think back to our adolescence and all the silly mistakes we make. We don’t want others to go through the same thing and in that sense it is a sort of selfless complaining. At the same time we feel frustrated by the ignorance that comes with inexperience. Adults would much prefer their children to skip their “glitch” ridden teen years. Many adults would take a teen with a wrong opinion over a teen that’s still pondering the issue and stuck on the fence.

I could go on to say that adults have these expectations of human development because they’re lazy, entitled and want everything handed to them without having to work for it.

But of course that would be generalizing the psychology and reasoning of an entire demographic, which would be very stupid of me to do. The more appropriate answer: It’s complicated.


#38

Well I was convinced by that compelling argument. The ‘Gamer Age’ has been moved to the tippy top of my list of things that are ruining this country,

Speaking of the ‘Gamer Age’, but more literally, the average age of someone who plays games is 31 years old. More gamers are over the age of 36 than between the ages of 18 to 35 or under the age of 18.


#39

I was on something called SSI for several years. It would have provided me a lifetime income without working, if I had decided to accept. Oddly enough, I didn’t spend any money on “These people would spend it on lotto tickets, alcohol and cigarettes.” Even odder, when I found a job, instead of keeping my SSI income coming and adding my work income (it occured to me that I might be able to get away with that) I quickly called the Social Security people and told them to stop sending SSI, which they did.

So kindly refrain from lying generalizations about people on guaranteed incomes.


#40

They would subscribe to Soylent by their ID cards’ basic income accounts.