Basic Income & Soylent


#101

I guess I am lucky I have never had to deal with them, then.

I am surprised that there are not more than one broadband internet option in some places, but I guess I have been spoiled. Also, obviously satellite tv is available everywhere to compete with cable tv. (…along with streaming services, but I guess that would necessitate an internet connection! haha)

Well, we have established that monopolies are bad, so maybe in the areas they are a monopoly the government should break up Comcast or force competition like they did with Ma Bell back in the day.


#102

You just had to lead with “brain problems”.

I think everyone can agree pregnancy is incredibly traumatic, even when all goes perfectly. People being forced to have children is a serious human rights issue. Women risk everything from serious complications to death. Everything else in our world has been retrofitted, upgraded, outsourced. But women still have to carry around their kids for 9 months.


#103

Or, we could look at what happens in real-world examples where people are given free money, and instead of operating on ideological assumptions, we could operate based on the theory that has the greatest explanatory power based on data.


#104

[quote=“sylass94, post:102, topic:27058, full:true”]
I think everyone can agree pregnancy is incredibly traumatic, even when all goes perfectly. People being forced to have children is a serious human rights issue. Women risk everything from serious complications to death. Everything else in our world has been retrofitted, upgraded, outsourced. But women still have to carry around their kids for 9 months.[/quote]I agree, which is why I’m pro-choice. Now if only men could choose not to pay child support, we’d be even.

“the most important connections are strengthened and the others are left to wither. Rather than indicating a loss of ability, pruning is generally taken to mean that a brain region has become more specialized.”[/quote]That was written by the writer of the article, not the study the article was based on. I didn’t want to link to the article itself, because it’s behind a paywall. There’s simply a lack of grey matter, nothing more. Look-up how psychopaths lack grey matter in regions of the brain associated with empathy. You’ll see nothing made-up about specialization & pruning, because the writer of the pregnancy article didn’t want to sound sexist. My mistake for a poor choice of article.

[quote=“tsapience, post:103, topic:27058”]Or, we could look at what happens in real-world examples where people are given free money, and instead of operating on ideological assumptions, we could operate based on the theory that has the greatest explanatory power based on data.[/quote]Great idea. Just go do those experiments in some other country & currency.


#105

[quote=“mellored, post:97, topic:27058”]Modern society has drastically improved with everyone knowing how to read. Something you do before highschool. And even with the lowest paying jobs need to know how to add up money and give change.[/quote]I think this is as far as I got into your post before it became clear that you’re blatantly ignoring the important points I’ve made in my post. I said our educational system is antiquated, yet you reply as if I’m saying we should just pull kids out of school & give-up on education entirely.


#106

[quote=“Dias, post:105, topic:27058”]
I think this is as far as I got into your post before it became clear that you’re blatantly ignoring the important points I’ve made in my post.
[/quote]True. I didn’t read your whole post.

My apologies.


#107

Legally speaking, child support is a right of the child, not of the parent. Not that I don’t sympathize with men who are put in a tough spot because of unplanned and unwanted fatherhood, but framing the issue as if it’s a competition with the right to abortion is a bit misleading.


#108

Soylenteers, pre-read your posts and try to be friendly.


#109

If the mother wants to keep the child or not, that’s her choice. If the father wants to keep the child & the mother does not, he has no say & that seems perfectly fair because it’s her body. If the father wants to have an abortion & the mother doesn’t, the father is forced to support the child regardless if he wants to or not. At that point, it’s not a matter of her body, it’s a matter of the father’s actions (i.e. paying the mother) which the mother has control over. The woman has freedom of choice, but the man’s choices are limited to whatever the woman wants. He can’t choose to simply disown the child, the way a couple could both decide to put the child up for adoption. It has nothing to do with the rights of the child, it’s about how the woman has more rights than the man.


#110

You have the right to be sterilized. It doesn’t hurt that bad.

(It does…)


#111

It it might have a practical effect on the choices available to the male or female parent, but saying that the question of whether or not a child will receive support from a non-custodial parent “has nothing to do with the rights of the child” makes no sense, and is simply false. As an attorney, I can tell you that it’s a legal fact in the United States. The law regards the entitlement to child support as belonging to the child, which is why it generally can’t be waived by the custodial parent even if they want to.


#112

I actually agree with Dias on the child support thing. If women have the ability to abandon ship after pregnancy, men should be able to abort as well. Obviously the man shouldn’t be able to force a literal abortion, but should be able to legally separate himself from the unborn child (before fetal viability) at the cost of losing all contact with the child. Kinda a tangent away from basic income though, isn’t it?


#113

I’m not commenting on whether the effect on adults is just. I’m just saying that the legal justification for the law has nothing to do with whether men and women are on “even” terms. The legal justification for the law is to guarantee children, who have no say in whether they are wanted, a right of support from their parents.


#114

Got it, that makes sense


#115

It isn’t a tangent if there’s an ongoing discussion. Talking about how something is off topic… is off topic. Of course if I really believed that, I would just not post this comment either.

Oops.


#116

[quote=“codemaker, post:112, topic:27058”]Kinda a tangent away from basic income though, isn’t it?[/quote]A person being forced to give a part of their pay to another person without any say in the matter. How is it not related?


#117

The thing is, if you co-create a child then you’re literally responsible for child’s existence. You shouldn’t be able to opt out of that. The way you opt out of that is not co-creating a child in the first place.

That said, once a child exists both co-creators of the child should have equal rights to the child. If a mother wants to put a child up for adoption and the father wants to raise it then the father should get to raise it. For that matter, mothers shouldn’t be allowed to put a child up for adoption without giving the father the option of raising the child IMO. Both co-creators should have both equal rights and equal responsibilities.


#118

The person you’re giving the money to is a person that only exists because of you. And since human childhood (which is the time when young humans can’t support themselves) is long, the people that create the child should have to support it during that time.

That said, if a mother has a child and a father is paying child support for the child we should be sure that the money is actually going to support the child rather than to buy the mother a new car or whatever. But that falls under the umbrella of, anybody that co-creates a child should have both equal rights and equal responsibilities.


#119

Aside from the standard set by law, I have to say I’m skeptical of this claim. It would be ideal if all parents loved and cared for the children they create, but it’s asking a lot. If I accidentally had a kid I wouldnt feel like I “must” care for it. It would depend more on what I’m currently doing in my life and if I think being a father is even worthwhile.


#120

If we’re talking about the case where the mother deceived and and led you to believe a child could not result then I may agree with you. But otherwise, if you do the act you should realize a child can occur. You can’t be forced to care for it in terms of emotion but you should provide financial care of it.