Complete Recipe Criticism


#1

I spent a lot of time looking into people chow, liquid cake, and other popular DIY Soylent recipes. I ended up formulating my own to meet my nutrient profile here. Its more expensive than I wanted, and I’d like to hear some criticisms and get some advice on how to better the recipe.

Positives:

  • Completely Amazon sourced
  • Oat flour instead of corn (for grit and taste)
  • No toxic levels of anything (within current limits of research) that I know of
  • Clean poop:)

Negatives I hope to fix:

  • Not completely vegan
  • High levels of Molybdenum and Manganese from oat flour.
  • Requires taking a pill (replacement?)
  • Expensive

#2

If copied directly from People Chow the price for the choline is woefully out of date. I found a cheaper alternative is now foods lecithin granulas. They supply lots of choline and act as an emulsifyer keeping the oil and water from separating.

You can also swap out the calcium/magnesium supplement for just the one you need from Bulk Supplements. I’m guessing you will only need the calcium.

Also for the vitamins and minerals your adding individually you can fine tune the amount to get closer to 100% and possibly save a few cents here and there. I don’t know about the scale your using but mine goes down to a tenth of a gram.


#3

Thanks for noticing the prices, I had a few that were wrong.
I really think the price is from all the modifications that come with using oat flour instead of corn flour.


#4

Manganese from oats shouldn’t be a problem. I try to keep it under the limit in my recipes out of caution, but allegedly it’s fine. I use soy lecithin granules instead of choline bitartrate. Much better taste, less need to be precise in the measurement, act as an emulsifier. My current reference recipe, though it’s a little overcomplicated.


#5

I’m really looking for a cheaper source of whey isolate (or equivalent). Its my largest money sink.
I’m looking into the soy lecithin. Sourced from Amazon doesn’t look any cheaper though.
Also, @Duskwave is there weird taste from all your different flours?


#6

The multiple flours are mostly to eliminate weird tastes, honestly. The large amount of flax is probably the “weirdest” taste of the mix, but I kind of like it.

The oat’s the best for taste, the masa is cheapest, the rice is just a neutral-ish filler that’s not too expensive and not corn (I’m actually using white instead of brown now, milder-tasting and cheaper).
The almond flour is good for taste, but gritty and expensive, I might replace it with wheat germ in the future (to keep the vitamin E and omega-6 contributions). In practice these days, I use 2% milk instead of the skim and canola oil, so it’s just mix + milk, so I need something with omega-6 in it.

If I could get better micronutrient stats on the Bob’s Red Mill Multigrain flours, I’d probably use that instead of the rice and some of the other.

I haven’t seen cheaper whey than the two I use that isn’t totally full of bodybuilding garbage. There’s cheaper soy, but I don’t really care for it.


#7

So much manganese could be a problem if consumed for three times a day. Why not try partial oat and partial corn flour or any other flour that goes well with oat flour or multigrain flours.


#8

He’s not even that close to the UL on manganese, and the official FDA recommendations and most studies say the UL is only for supplemental manganese anyway, if you get it from oats you can safely go well over it without issue. I stay under the UL just to be on the safe side, but it’s really a non-issue.


#9

Manganese is also found in drinking water in a lot of areas and there is a study that has found neurological effects in people who drank water with high manganese. Another study has found ill effects in people who consumed water with as low as 1.8-2.3 mg/ liter. Not to mention airborne manganese in areas where MMT is used in gasoline. And this too is more bio-available.

Since we cant avoid or control for these things, we can avoid going too high in its limits, by keeping our food source of manganese as less as possible but above the lower limit.


#10

If protein is your most expensive item I wonder why you have 124g of protein in your recipe. Unless your trying to put on muscle or something thats significantly more than what you need. The whey protein you have is about the most cost effective brand I have found. Others may be cheaper by the pound but are more expensive by the serving because you have to add more of it to get the same amount of protein.

As I said earlier the Calcium/Magnesium supplement can be exchanged for just a calcium supplement.

I don’t know where in the world you are but if there is a COSTCO near you you can get 25lb of non-iodized salt for about $4 making it effectively free. It looks like your vitamin supplies all the iodine you need so getting iodized salt isn’t necessary. Also check their fat/oils isle. At mine they have a 35lb box of soybean oil for $20. It will probably go rancid before you use it all but at $20 who cares.


#11

@horsfield the recipe is tagged as “bodybuilding”, whatever else that may entail, I have the maximum proven effective protien intake. It is approximated that any protein over .82g per pound of body weight is completely ineffective, and some studies suggest a plateau at .75g/lb. 124g is somewhere in between the two. The calcium/magnesium also provides the rest of my D3, and is cheaper than calcium and a D3 powder. Good catch on the iodine, I’ll eliminate the salt.

@Tark thanks for the thorough check on my possible manganese intake. Ive looked at Oregon’s regulations for air and water manganese levels, and it looks like Oregon has negliglible amounts at 50ug/L which is nice. Other places are not so lucky.

@Duskwave have you considered using unsweetened (or whatever) almond milk instead of skim milk? You can avoid (or not with flavored) carbs and pretty much everything else except the micros and fat.


#12

Come to think of it your protein powder should be supplying all the calcium you need. So all you need is a D3 supplement. Bulk Supplements makes a D3 powder. A single serving is 46mg so the smallest 100g powder should last you 2173 servings making it pretty darn affordable. It could last longer if you want less than the 5000UI/day.

I should suggest cutting it with something edible like your flour or protein powder. Figure out how many servings is in your protein powder then measure out that much of the D3 (1.9g) and add it. Then shake, tumble, and mix it like crazy to get it as evenly distributed as you can (which may be easier typed than done). One of these would do the trick nicely.

As far as protein for bodybuilding I’ve gone up to 1g/lb. and noticed a difference. Thats one thing about DIY I like, you can hit any macronutrient and calorie count you want.


#13

@horsfield I like the idea of having only disparate nutrients and not having combined supplements like the GNC Mega Men combo. But I really think the improvement in ditching that specific element is negligible, if you view my recipe’s breakdown, that cal/mag also gives >50% of my magnesium. I’d have to up the oat flour or something else in addition to getting D3 and getting more calcium from protein, pysllium, or flour.

Do you have any flavoring suggestions? My recipe looks like a pile of (healthy) granulated slop:)

I know everybody’s different and your body could totally have a different efficiency with respect to how protein breaks down carbs, but this article, I know it looks bad, but he/she sources a bunch of methodologically solid studies that talk about max protein levels if you care, I just thought it was really interesting the other day.


#14

As you can probably tell I’m a bit of a math geek and sometimes get lost in the numbers. That article gave me some very interesting numbers to chew on and I will be adjusting my recipe shortly. Admittedly my recommendations would save you a few cents a day and if it’s not worth it it’s not worth it.

As far as taste goes my recipe was very blah tasting at first but my taste buds adjusted. Now it reminds me of Cheerios. There are many threads on this forum about adding flavor to soylent. If you look for "flavoring soylent " you should find several. Personally I’ve been thinking of using a flavored version of the protein powder we use. It won’t be as cheep but it will taste better.


#15

Consider taking a protein blend to cut your costs… Whey isolate isn’t the only complete source of protein out there. I take a blend of casein, whey, soy, to keep my costs down while still keeping protein levels up. Here is a copy of my recipe, I am primarily focused on getting sufficient protein as I regular participate in crossfit style workouts with a major focus on olympic lifts.

http://diy.soylent.me/recipes/copy-of-protein-boosted-people-chow-w-soy-protein

I had been getting my soy isolate from hard rhino but recently found out about honey ville, where if your willing to buy 44 pounds at a time, can see even greater savings, you just need to find out how to store 44 pounds of soy isolate in a safe and effective manner (which is why I haven’t taken that plunge yet).


#16

One of these would work nicely.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B0002DJOOI/ref=mlt_B000A6UF4U_B0002DJOOI


#17

Thats not too bad… $ to $, you save about $51 on every order (of 44 pounds) so you lose all but $20 in the savings on your first “order” since you have to “invest” in the 50 pound food storage container. After that though you save $51 every time you buy 44 pounds of soy isolate… if your truly looking to minimize ongoing costs it’s hard to beat a blend that is made up majorly of soy isolate when bought in such large bulks


#18

Actually the savings is more than that. You have to multiply the cost of the whey protein by 4.4 so it’s pound to pound.


#19

I lowered my protein intake so about .72 per pound. Because I need to face the fact that I’m not going to use all that protein, I have to sit a lot.

@Endtropy I like the idea of having a more mixed protein source. I tried to find a good blend that wasn’t Mega Men that everyone uses because I’m wary of the huge vitamin levels. But to no avail.


#20

Almond milk is expensive and really really low in micros. I did look at it, though. As it is, replacing any of the dairy milk to use other liquids reduces the micros more than I like. With the current amount of milk, I don’t need to use calcium, magnesium, or potassium powders/pills, which is nice.

D3 is pretty easy, there’s these: D3/K2 - they’re capsules, not tablets, so you can just open them and dump the powder in.

Also regarding the Mega Men, the Maximum Nutrition (in the recipe I linked before) is much more reasonable than the Sport and quite a bit cheaper. I’ve still got a bit of Sport to use up, but the Max Nutrition is what I’ll do after that.