Critique wanted on my bulking/cutting (culking?) stacklent. Also, hopefully helpful and handy post for you


#1

my stacklent (my individual soylent stack)


goals

i want to both lose weight and bulk up. this may be a faulty premise. so, as i cut+bulk (“culk”? “but”?), i’ve adjusted my formulas to match.

so, with that in mind, i’d love for input from @LdHenryWotton, @JofArnold, @jozef, @Tai, @p0lish_sausage, @SaladFingers, @JonathanMcClare, @Tommy (and a few more i post right after this—discourse limitations!).

i’m a big fan of tim ferris, his 4 hour body, specifically. for bulking, he recommends protein “1.25g/lb of lean bodyweight” (p192), and kcal “20kcal/lb lean bodyweight” (p217).

i’m about 150lb lean bodyweight, so, you can my ratios work out to

1.66g/lb lbw (protein)
13kcal/lb lbw (kcal)

way over, way under.

on his blog, he recently had an article on ufc star gsp and his precision nutrition doctor’s formula. gsp is a mesomorph, so his kcalorie formula is 30%protein/40%carbs/30%fat.

this is the kcalorie breakdown, not the mass breakdown. to save you from reading the article, here are the somatype breakdowns:

for mesomorphs, it’s 30%p/40%c/30%f
for ectomorphs, it’s 25%p/55%c/20%f
for endomorphs, it’s 35%p/25%c/40%f

i honestly have no idea what type i am. i am very average. i’m not clearly ecto or meso. i don’t think i’m an endo, but, i am at 20% bodyfat.

so, until i come up with something better, i’m shooting for meso.

but even then, my calorie breakdown looks like
50%p/25%c/25%f

hm. even without talking to the bodybuilders on this group, i’m thinking i need to rethink.

so, how did i arrive at my amounts?

iifym.com


my formula

i highly recommend the site, iifym.com (“if it fits your macros”).

everyone’s micros, on the whole, are going to be very similar (for those in the same gender). it’s macros where we seem to vary.

i used their calculator, went for the katch method, and then tweaked carbs low (aggressive weight loss) and protein high (aggressive weight gain).


cost

currently my two biggest drains: fiber+protein.

fiber, due to my brand. i like what i’m getting (it has other benefits, like omega-3’s, so i dont’t need fish oil). but, at my rate, i’ll burn through it in less than 2 weeks, +it’s USD$ a bucket.

protein, due to my goals. which may be completely off.


schedule

i prep stacklent the night before. my biggest reason is i am a zombie in the morning and i need to roll out of bed and have my juice.

i am, like i said, right or wrong, a big advocate of tim ferriss’s 4 hour body. in it, and in other things he’s written, he recommends 30g of protein within 30 minutes of waking. if i make it the night before, done. depending on how i use my bottles, i’m getting between 30-60g within waking time.

i mix my macros and mediums (fiber, lutein, salt—micros that are measured in grams or spoons) in the blender. 1/3 protein, oats, 1/3 protein, malto, 1/3 protein, rest on top. as per @HarveyDesu’s suggestion, i make a little hole for my solitary liquid, extra light olive oil, to make a slimy center.

i take my micros, and divide them into 4 categories: tablets, capsules, and a solitary softgel, and pramiracetam.

the pramiracetam i have no good way of adding. i bought this tiny scale, calibrated it, and use very clunky tools (1/4 tsp, pairing knife) to try and measure 200mg (usually land in the ~250mg range) into the tiny plate. it doesn’t all land there, nor does all of it go into the blender. i try to brush it in as best i can, and then lick the precious gold dust off my fingers.

the softgel i stick in, because i will forget (zombie), plus, something in me is convinced i’m better getting it spread throughout the day. this isn’t a very smooth process i’ve outline HERE.

the tablets (all seven of them) get crushed in an immesion blender. this one, specifically. i use the holidome attachement (or as they call it, the very specific chopper grinder). this tends to grind them quite fine. my roommate has a mortal and pestle (no idea why) that i might use if a piece is being stubbon. that said, this immersion blender is LOUD. be good to your roommates and do this when they are not home or not asleep.

the capsules all get taken apart. i’ve tried it two ways: mixing it in with the tablets before macros, or straight into the macros. i seem to get finer tablet grind if i mix capsule gut with tablets. but, my immersion blender has a lot more “dust” on the sides, dust i want to be consuming.

and that’s it. it fills up about 40oz in the blender. i add filtered brita water to get it to the top. i then pour it “evenly” into 4 blender bottles (20oz) (which i can’t recommend enough). i am considering filling the rest of the bottles with more water, to experiment with taste, consistency, convenience.

as far as prep goes, i am considering doing a week’s worth at a time (to save more time). i’m trying to land on what my final amount will be, so i know what size containers to get. also, i’d like to be able to take it with me when i travel, as most places have water and a blender. i’m considering doing this in daily amounts. however, the blender bottle company just came out with "go stacks," so i might try+divvy them up into meal amounts for travel, along with a portable blender.

if you are mobile, i recommend getting a cooler+some flexible, reusable ice packs. i have one that fits my 5 bottles, but is small enough to go on the floor of my passenger seat. still looking for a good ice pack.


look and taste

i don’t really care about looks, but, if the picture on rob’s blog is what his looks like (2nd one down) , i can say that mine “looks” very similar. taste. it’s hard to say whether any two things every taste the same to any two people, but, based on rob’s description, that’s how i’d describe mine. a hint of salty with a bit of sweet (it seems like the salty comes from the protein and the sweet from the oats).


feel

i feel good. i don’t feel amazing. i want to feel amazing. i like rob’s description of jumping off sidewalks, code writing itself. i want to reclaim that unstoppable 3-year-old energy i once had growing up, where i was infinitely curious about everything around me and constantly running around.

i do feel mentally clearer, but that ease of mental work doesn’t seem to be present.

as far as energy, i suspect it’s because i’m low on kcal (~1900, where i should probably be 2500-3500 once i’m “done” “culking”).

i feel a good bit of energy right after taking my stacklent. this dips between 2-3 hours after. i think rob said he takes more when he’s hungry. i think i might time this on when i “feel” it, but i’m also trying to spread it evenly among waking hours.


additions

digestive enzymes

want to make sure everything’s going where it’s supposed to. and sticking.

cleanse

i did a ten day cleanse before i kicked this off. i’ve had a few friends who have done different ones, and the result of detoxing allows your body to readjust to what it needs to do. i’ve had one friend reverse an allergy by doing this, and another was able to go back to regular foods. i wanted to start off absorbing everything properly.


future variable considerations

quantity

if i can get stuff cheaper, i’d love to. i’m big on convenience though, as well. because i’m a sucker for prime, i’m more likely to order anything from amazon. i finally now have a reason to subscribe to “food” every x weeks/months. need to research some quality, opaque storage tubs.

micro processing

much easier to

ratios

obviously, getting protein down would be cheaper, but, i also know as my goals change, be they culk, bulk, cut or maintain, this will change. i am interested in getting protein down, in any regard.

accounting for “eating” during the day

i don’t have any good ideas for this, yet. i used to use dailyburn’s food camera to estimate what i was eating. not sure how to work this in reverse/plan.

oil/fat

i’d love to try macadamia nut oil. pricey.
i’d love to try rob’s powdered oil. unknown.
hemp. flax. i’ve seen a few others, too.

carbs

just considerations like glycemic index and phytic acid. not even sure what else is out there.

protein

not a lot to change, other than brand. i’ve read that there’s discrepancy on how much protein is in protein. i’ve also seen that there are some with slow, medium, +fast proteins.

multivitamin

i really like optimen, overall. i don’t like that some of the daily amounts are WAY over, and that there’s nothing i can do about them, selenium being the worst culprit. so, something that doesn’t go over would be way better for me. alive liquid is interesting to me.

more additions

in ferris’s book, he has other supplements like pagg (agg), cq, and more. i won’t just blindly put these in, as may already be getting some of these (like green tea in optimen). if something is optional (even if it isn’t), i want to know what it does, why, how it will benefit me specifically. i don’t think ferris is the end all, be all either. i want to see what others are recommending as well.

stacklent/formula/spreadsheet

worth teaching yourself excel, if you haven’t (or in my case, apple’s numbers). really. not only should everyone know it, it’ll make you that much more intimate with what’s going into yours. i based a LOT of mine off @rotbart 's. it’s not perfect, but i’ve added some items like at current rate,

when will my supply run out?
what percentage am i getting of my target/daily amount?
initial toxicity research.

i’d like to flesh out the toxicity one more, so i know what both my ranges and consequences are. i’d also like to stick some of my “what does what” into the spreadsheet without overcluttering it. i’d like over amounts to flag one color, dangerously over to flag another, and likewise on under amounts. i’d also like to clean it up a bit, noting which items can be scheduled from amazon, put my personal ordering dates in, so if i travel or change ratios, i can adjust accordingly. possibly visually group into macros, micros, medros, vitamins, unit amounts, etc.


tips

be sure to write as much as you can down (when, how you feel, etc.). this information is invaluable when reviewing and tweaking.

read, a lot. i did all of my homework before purchasing anything. obviously, i did not reach omniscience, but i hit a point where i thought i had in my stack/formula was better than what i was doing in regular eating. anything i thought i didn’t understand i read more on. this is how i landed on iifym.com.

i put in 8 hours one day compiling all of rob’s notes, reading a ton of diy threads and comparing. we currently live in a world where the average thought is no longer than a tweet, so this lends itself very easily to, “tell me what to do?” “what should i do?” “what’s best?” i promise you this—you will get out of anything what you put into it. this is not a bit different. it’s ok to build on the work of others, but do that: build.

ask questions. there’s a balance here. if you’ve done no homework and want others to do all the lifting, well, you will probably be treated as being lazy. but, if you have done the work and are stuck, others are generally happy to hop in and give a helping hand.

one of the biggest things attracting me to soylent is precision. something’s too much? decrease. something’s not enough? increase.

do your bloodwork. it’s very valuable to seeing what’s going on in you.

get precision tools. the better the information, the better the decisions you can make. i have a bodymetrix personal (for measuting bodyfat) and a withthings scale for automatic graphing of weight (it’s bodyfat is interesting, but not as accurate). i also have two different food scales. weighing spoon on the way.


questions/where can you critique me?

i’d love feedback.

hopefully what i’ve done is helpful to you.

but, i’d love you to poke holes all through out my post.

here are some of my questions:

is it possible to bulk and cut?

am i way off?

if not possible, what should i do first? why? how should i go about it?

am i going to kill myself with anything you see?

anything i’m blind to? anything you recommend in general?


#2

i’d honestly love to hear from everybody.

i’d also love to hear from @CuriousBen, @Lincoln, @HarveyDesu, @cameronmalek, @CntryDwllr, @cameronmalek, as i think they can speak to my goals. sorry you didn’t make first post. no preferential or any kind of order other than random. maybe i saved the best for last.


#3

I don’t have time to write out a proper response, as it’s already a couple hours past my bed time. But my personal philosophy is to do separate bulking/cutting cycles. Don’t do either TOO hard, but trying to do both at the same time just causes issues IMO.

A proper cut won’t cause you to lose too much muscle mass, and it comes back really really fast. I prefer to cut first, then do a slowish bulk. Less fat gain that way. I’ve tried fast bulks and they’ve always been messy. They don’t work for me, at least not in an efficient manner.

I’ll try to get the time to read this properly tomorrow.

YMMV, I am not a doctor, nor do I play one on TV.


#4

Holy shit, this is extensive. First of all, maybe I just missed it but where are you located? I’m on 200g of protein/day so it’s my single biggest expense too, so if you’re UK: Oneon soy isolate is cheapest at £7/kilo and MyProtein comes to £10.80/kilo, but it seems to be more reliable stock-wise and there’s a lot of discount codes floating around.

Second: I know what you’re thinking, but studies have shown no change in hormone levels from using soy, phytoestrogens or no. The type of protein doesn’t really matter as your body can store digested proteins for days, longer than you could possibly need it to – all that matters is that it’s a complete source (especially since we’re relying purely on it).

Culking: I think you’re looking for recomp and while I’m loath to dismiss someone out of hand and I don’t know too much about Tim Ferris, but the bio on that blog doesn’t seem to log any kind of actual qualifications and a lot of the stuff he’s talking about now resides firmly in the “broscience” category – n-morphs and stupendously high carb:fat ratios. The most convincing system I’ve seen is Silverhydra’s Cheat Mode, which focuses on keeping your body in a glucagon dominant (read: fat burning) state for most of the day and creating a huge insulin spike during and post-workout, when muscle cells are most sensitive to matter uptake. This means I only have one meal a day with carbs in it and hence generally keep carbs low overall, giving me a 2:1:2 mass ratio of p/c/f, or 4:2:9 calorie breakdown. Also, fats are vital for test production and are more energy-dense than carbs, so you have to chug less if it’s fat-heavy.

As for iifym.com, I’d just say that high protein isn’t going to increase your weight, calories do that. 1900kcal is going to gain you nothing but pain and poor gym performance, I’d just advise a straight bulk at 150lb lbm.

My spreadsheet below has a couple of Amazon sources that are the best I can find, and if they’re not helpful I’ve at least got a usable format for sources that gives you time it’ll last, cost/day etc.

Good luck with your research, good to see there’s other people with similar goals doing the Discourse.


#5

I apologize but I do not have the time right now to read through and critique everything. But I will attempt to this weekend.

As a former fighter I followed the cutting and bulking religiously. Well to be honest I rarely had to cut, as I was always the biggest dude in my weight class. But the times that I had to cut I hated it.
Unless you are going into some competition (sorry I didn’t finish reading your whole post) then I disagree with the bulk / cutting. To me it just doesn’t make sense.
What I recommend doing, and it has helped me vastly with my gains is to move to a maintenance diet. Calculate what you want your LBM to be, then figure out how much protein you need to reach that LBM, figure out the amount of fats that you need to consume to help with absorption of those proteins, and then use the carbs to fill in the blanks for the calories.
Eat like you are 150 lbs and 10% body fat rather than eating like your 120 lbs at 8% and then eating like you are 200 lbs at 15%. It is way easier to sustain and I think healthier as well.

Now if you are a fighter and training for fights then by all means bulk up, I usually see people size up to around 15 - 20% above their fighting weight. Depending on how much over you sit, you then spend a week or a couple of days cutting to drop down the weight.

A 1900 calorie diet isn’t going to help you in the gym at all. You are actually going to starve your muscles and begin to cause damage to them as you will not be able to feed them what they need. 2K calories is just too low.

I’ve seen a lot of people do the diet that LdHenryWotton is recommending. I also believe that it has quite a bit a merit to it. But if I were to try something like that again, then I had trouble with only having a big insulin spike after my workout. I just was unable to do it, I did not have enough energy to sustain what I wanted to do. But I am also not a body builder.
Most of my life my goal was to gain weight, and I always told myself that if I couldn’t hit 250 lbs before I turned 30 then I would give up my aspirations of playing basketball or going full time into MMA. Alas I am 31 now, so my goal of gaining weight is kind of moot. Not really sure why I am pursuing it still, other than I am being OCD. I only mention this so that you know where my advice is coming from. If it coincides with what you want, then great, if not then that is fine too.

As I stated at the beginning of this post I will review your post in it’s entirety and give better feedback later this weekend.

Good luck with what you are doing.


#6

As LdHenry mentioned, looks like you’re looking for recomp. I’ve always heard that you can either bulk or cut but not both at the same time. Building muscle mass while losing body fat is supposedly hard to do but I’m experimenting with that and so far it’s been working although it’s still too soon to tell what the end results will be.

The eating habit I’m using (I don’t like the term “diet”) is intermittent fasting (leangains.com is the best source). Not everyone calls it this though. Some call it the 16-8 diet where you fast for 16 hours and eat your daily calories all within an 8 hour window.

Coincidentally, Hugh Jackman revealed in a recent interview that he was using this eating habit in order to bulk up for the new Wolverine movie after having to shrink in size for Les Miserable. Although, seems like he did a much faster bulk, eating 5,000 cals a day.

In case you’re interested:

http://omg.yahoo.com/blogs/celeb-news/hugh-jackman-reveals-takes-lot-chicken-become-wolverine-223632622.html


#7

“Cutting and bulking” - that has something to do with muscles, right?


#8

@CuriousBen - Bulking - gaining a lot of muscle and a bit of fat
Cutting - losing a lot of fat and a bit of muscle

That’s the idea, at least. I often find the reverse to be true, because my nutrition is shit at the moment.

@food - that’s the great thing about these systems - the nutrient partitioning is such that you can bulk faster without gaining as much fat. The gallons of juice Jackman’s on shouldn’t be ignored, mind.


#9

Hi Learnboy,

Sorry I haven’t read the whole thread. Hopefully I will get around to do so soon.

Just to give you my humble take on this subject:

I believe that we are all different and our bodies react differently to different sources of food.
You need to find what works best for you by experimenting and measuring your gym performance, body weight, body far percentage and most of all be consistent. Some people respond better to low carb diet with high healthy fats some vice versa.

Right now, I’m getting about half of my calories in form of Soylent shakes (with oats and fruits as carbs source and coconut, olive and MCT oil as source of fats). The rest is beef, salmon, chicken white rice/sweet potatoes and steamed vegetables. This combination works for me, keeps me sane, healthy and is very convenient. I’ve tried being on soylent only for few days, didn’t work for me, I missed food too much.

I’m also on intermittent fasting, but it has only been two weeks so its too early to judge. You may want to look into that too.

My macros are something like 250gprotein, 170carbs, 90fats. However I’m not super strict and I don’t measure everything I eat.
I’m 89kg with about 12% body fat percent. I’ve been on and off gym for about 5 years now.


#11

thanks for all the replies, guys. i want to get back to everybody, but it may be easier to update, first.

so, i’m just about to wrap week 3.

observations

taste

there’s been a lot of debate/discussion/etc. in the forums about taste. everything affects everything when it comes to taste. the greater quantity you have of something, the mores it affects taste. i changed/overdosed one major ingredient (more below) for a single day and it tasted like chalk. i dropped my whey and increased my oats, and it went from saltier to sweeter. your input affects your output.

time

i really do love the time-savings. it’s one less thing to think about each day. far less to clean-up. i don’t have everything down to 20 minutes, it’s more like 20 micro, 20 macro, 20 clean-up (although this has probably dropped from 60 minutes to 45; i can fit one dr who episode* in while i prep; i miss rose). more on this under future.

be careful watching dr who doing this; it’s easy to lose count.

warm soylent

is the worst. avoid at all costs.

tweaks

waste not, want not.

for my mix, i add 750ml to the blender, then pour it into 4 different colored blender bottles. this puts about 10oz (yeah, it’s a bit maddening when all your tools fight between metric and english). then, (and i think this is a little bit brilliant), i put 1000ml (or 1 l) in the blender to wash it out, get what extra soylent is in there, then filling the bottles to roughly 18oz each.

fiber

i changed my brand, and accidentally overdosed. that was a (literally) painful day.

percentages and increase

i’ve changed my stacklent to a 25p50c25f kcal blend, upping my daily kcals to roughly 2200 (over 1900). which leads to,

frustrations

progress.

i don’t seem to be bulking or cutting. dead on maintenance. i don’t use my bodymetrix as often as my withings scale, but if my scale’s to be trusted, my body fat is going up slightly.

i’ve been a runner most of my life, +i know if i get out there +just put in the mileage, i’ll cut down nicely. but, i’d rather get my baseline macros in place for an optimized body, then tack on lifting+reasonable running.

nootropics

i’m using @rob’s preferred pramiracetam, between 200-300mg daily. all i can tell so far is that it’s pricey placebo.

energy

still no childlike boundless energy. that could be because i’m floating in the low 2k kcal’s. but i’m torn. do i go higher? do i raise it? do i risk packing on more that i’m not using? i’m carrying roughly 40-45lb’s of fat on my carcass, and it should be (ideally), half of that. in fact, i do experience crashes throughout the day. they’re not consistent, and they don’t seem to last as long. i should really be recording how i feel every hour.

amazing thought life

see above. drats.

additions

cissus quadrangularis

or cq. championed by tim ferriss (i’ll be getting back to him in the replies). i’ve only added this in the last few days (so, it doesn’t count towards my zero progress frustration), +ferriss advocates its use 30 minutes before a meal, not mixed in your liquid matrix drink. (4 hour body, pages 110-113, 208). he recommends this for blocking insulin uptake (in his binging chapter). as i’m reviewing my notes, it seems i’m taking ⅓ of what he recommends (7200mg, daily). he also recommends taking a break from it to avoid plateauing. (side note, ferriss is incredibly honest: when there isn’t enough science or research, he states this plainly; cq is an example).

measuring water

the more you record, the less guess work you have. i need to take this a step further: what should my daily be for water? a gallon?

right now, i finish off a bottle, then fill it with as pure water as i can get to both “wash it out” and get what little bit is left in there. i’m not strict on this, as sometimes i will wash one bottle out into the next, and drink the extra of two with one bottle of water.

multiple water insertion points

if i add water at the end, i really have to cram a steak knife to the bottom of the blender. otherwise, it’ll spin and spin the dry’s, burning the blender out.

pagg

(or agg, really). also ferriss (4 hour body, pages 103-120). components: policosanol (bed only), alpha-lipoic acid, green tea flavanols, garlic extract. he advocates this for fat loss. also, just the past three days, and i just ran out. i really was not good about either cq or this, and just threw them into my mix, not adding the ingredients to my spreadsheet for comparison (i suspect there is some overlap with optimen). ferris also does this pre-meal (with the exception of policosanol).

go stacks

from the makers of blender bottles. these. things. ROCK. come in a variety of sizes+colors. i’ve found the 60cc is just about perfect for containing all my dry/mixed/ground micros. they make one larger size, and i might have to graduate to it as i’m pushing the limit on this already. they also fit inside blender bottles, too. these things are just great. a funnel would really help.

future tweaks

probiotics

prebiotics

fermented cod liver rich vitamin butter fat oil capsules

other 4hb tweaks

ferriss recommends some other things (like creatine, alpha lipoic acid, l-glutamine, etc.). i need to compare this to the spreadsheet and my goals first.

mixing carbs separately from everything else

i’ve read nixing carbs before bed helps with fat loss/muscle gain. so, i’m considering mixing everything before, +pouring it into all bottles. then mixing carbs, +pouring that into all bottles minus my last (another reason why different colored blender bottles rock).

meal substitution

whether i know or don’t know if i’m going to eat with friends (it really is a social thing for me, and i love being social), i want some plan for accounting for this. i feel like i’m wasting soylent right now if i do, or i’m overboarding. saving it for the next day just throws off my numbers for two days. plus, this stuff feels like unstable molecules, it doesn’t last in the heat.

more blood work

my goal, stacklent or not, is 2-4 times/year.

weekly prep

i think weekly prep is the next genius move. this will cut down on the overhead of getting everything out and putting it back and cleaning it up (one time vs seven) all other times will probably remain the same. as i won’t be thinking about much else, i suspect i’ll find other efficiencies. plus, sometimes i’m really tired at night and don’t always want to prep the next day’s the night before, no matter how much better it is for me. weekly seems to be the right interval to introduce changes as well.

equipment: _ware

first, i need to get some kind of tupperware/_whatever wear to store it in. i’m not sure on the size. i know this stuff will settle, but, i don’t want to be cramming it in. also, once i establish my baseline, i plan to increase. i’d like to get about two weeks’ worth, so i can take prep and take it on long car trips. stackable is great. keeping it out of the elements (heat, humidity) is even better. i’ve heard keeping it out of light is great, too, but the highly recommended models from oxo and kinetic go green are translucent. plus, if i split my carbs from my everything else, well, i’m looking at quite a bit. trial and error, maybe?

equipment: blender

the blender my roomie has is pretty old. i’m really intrigued by a larger ninja blender.

equipment: cyborg monitoring

the dexcom seven plus continuous blood glucose monitor (or possibly the g4 platinum). yes this will make me a cyborg. yes, i hate needles. yes i hate augmentation. yes i want the benefits of knowing exactly what’s going on inside of me at any given moment. this won’t be soon, but maybe by fall. right now, i’m not making progress, and i want to know why.

individual meal portions

i’m intrigued by this for mixing on the go/travel/swapping a meal out/etc. but the amount of work to divvy it up into one balanced, seems, yikes.

air travel

my guess is unless i’m shipping my stacklent to myself, i’ll be eating with the masses on farther trips. possibly can take my micros with me.

i.f.

super interested in this. need to do my homework. ferriss has been back and forth on this issue, but he highly recommends john romaniello, who does recommend it (in addition to being recommended in this very thread).

whew,

sorry for the book.

again, i welcome any and all criticism and feedback.


#12

I apologize I still have not had a chance to review your recipe in it’s entirety as of yet.

While I also like Tim Ferris, I think that you might be going a little overboard following his suggestions. I have not read the book, so I maybe incorrect. But a lot of his diet suggestions are for people on normal diets. You are attempting to augment a waste-less system based on a waste based model.
For the insulin spikes you may take a look at something that has a lower Glycemic Index (GI). Rather than trying to augment an insulin spike, adjust your recipe to decrease the likelihood of an insulin spike.

For the bulking or cutting what are you doing for exercise? Remember when you are bulking you don’t want to do cardio. When you are cutting you also don’t want to do a lot of muscle building. Once again this is why I suggest finding the happy medium and shooting for that constantly rather than going up and down.
Based on your first post I think you might be way over on your protein (1.66 is pretty high unless you are a body builder).

I agree with you on the nootropics. I have been using the noopept and I found a placebo affect the first few days. But now I don’t notice anything.

The energy on the other hand I have found quite a bit better. I don’t really have any highs or lows any more, it is pretty constant throughout the day, even when I am lifting. But I do not have the boundless childlike energy you are referring to, just a steady supply.

For water I am up to 2 gallons a day and I still “feel” dehydrated. I will be tweaking my potassium intake slightly to see if that is what is causing my issue.

Thanks for the go stacks link. I have been having problems carrying my bottles around with me, and this weekend I tied a bunch of jug knots that I have attached to my bag now. Kind of wish I would have seen the slings first, but that can be a plan B.

Once again, while I kind of like Ferris, I would recommend venturing out and doing some of your own research and testing. I’m not so sure that his book was designed nor completely fits a Soylent diet. While I am sure some things are universal others may not.

I’ll try to read through everything more thoroughly later.
Great job on keeping up with it, and keeping track of things. Keep going!


#13

I don’t really have much to add except to look up LeanGains, Cheat Mode and carb backloading. If I had the smallest semblance of self control I’d be doing that.


#14

so curious. no idea what any of these are. will be studying.


#15

Hate to say it but the LeanGains site reads like an eager vendor of snake oil starting out.
I don’t know if he’s really the guy in the pictures, but if he is, good for him, he chose the right parents and didn’t mess himself up; other than that, it has too much hype/sell to make me feel even slightly comfortable with it.

Sorta like the sites that Alwyn Cosgrove links - most of them are honest, decent people trying to make a living, but they’re doing so by selling something that is very expensive and very much not guaranteed to work for most people.

If you’re having success with either of these people, more power to ya! But snake oil is not an essential nutrient in my household, so I try to avoid things that taste or smell of it.


#16

LG is scientifically pretty solid. You don’t eat for a while, which puts your body into a catabolic state primarily targeting fat stores, then you eat over a short period which puts you in an anabolic state. By minimising the frequency and length of these insulin spikes you lose more fat. That’s pretty much IF in a nutshell.

What Cheat Mode does is recognise the importance of GLUT4 position. GLUT4 is the protein in the cell membrane that interacts with insulin to support nutrient uptake, and as the time spent fasted increases, more and more GLUT4 moves to the cell membrane, increasing insulin sensitivity. A heavy weight workout increases this effect specifically in striated muscle (i.e. the one you’re working), meaning that if you follow this workout with your feast nutrients are taken more predominantly by the muscle tissue than by fat, meaning you can more effectively minimise muscle loss when cutting and fat gain when bulking.

The very act of taking in carbs to cause an insulin spike after a workout is known as carb backloading. All LG adds to this is the idea that you should alter your diet on a rest day compared to a training day. On a rest day you need fewer calories (you’re not working out, duh) and you don’t need carbs at all (if anything, that’ll just hurt your progress), just protein and fat to aid recovery. Although Berkhan does clearly juice like a mofo.


#17

@LdHenryWotton Sadly I have screwed my body up rather badly and ‘don’t eat for a while’ is a quick way to make me need medical care now. My focus is going to be on repairing the insulin insensitivity, letting my liver heal up, and generally making things work better, before I start doing fine tuning with fasting.


#18

Doing heavy weights Foomf? - my understanding is this should help restore insulin sensitivity due to the glycogen depletion.

Probably :wink: (don’t ask for sources :D)


#19

Neither heavy enough nor often enough, and I fail to walk my required minimum 30 minutes (though this new job is helping with that because it’s a quarter mile walk from my current lab to the main lab where most of our testing is done, and I frequently end up doing the trip there and back three or four times a day.) So yeah. Avoid getting metabolic syndrome if at all possible.


#20

There have been some tests that have shown this to be inconclusive, but there have been other tests that have shown some gain from this.

But go out and get a high quality weight vest, or a diving belt. If you are doing that much walking adding 20 lbs to your frame will increase the workout that you get. Always start low on the weight, and slowly, and I mean slowly build up. Else you run the risk of messing up your skeletal (back) structure.

I spent a year and got my vest up to 50 lbs, I wore it underneath my clothes at work and there were only a few people that noticed. I also wore it daily, and for several hours a day. It was great, as when ever I took it off I felt light as a feather, and I believe that I did perform better in sports during that time…hmmmm I think I should start doing that again.


#21

It’s nice to see others with like-minded goals :smiley:

For oil, i recommend Walnut or Coconut. Walnut seems to be cheaper, and has little to no taste when added, while Coconut has a slight taste, but it isn’t unpleasant. Although others seem to be fine with using it, I personally can’t stomach Olive Oil… XP

It’s fine if you go over the RDA on most Vitamins and Minerals, as they can have a pretty high Upper Intake levels though PLEASE check before (Upper Intake is the point before the dosage starts to cause adverse effects - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dietary_Reference_Intake), as you do not want to overdose particularly on supplemental Magnesium (dietary Magnesium you can’t overdose on - http://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/Magnesium-HealthProfessional/) and Sodium. Calcium might also be a concern if you’re taking that much Protein, depending on the source and type, although I doubt you can overdose on dietary Calcium.

Although I have a lot to learn in the area, it sounds like at 1900 you’ll probably burn lean mass as well, not to mention disadvantage yourself when exercising. Try it if you want though, especially as Soylent isn’t comparable to normal food, and normal food seems to be reasonably more inefficient for the body in comparison.