DIY Basic, new recipe


#1

I’ve got a new recipe based on Soylent Glass.

“DIY Basic Soylent” is a basic amalgamation of the macros and essential micros, tailored to an adult male. It’s running $5.36 a day, with an almost complete profile for all micros. Slightly low on the calories, but I’d be taking them down further to 1750 per day to lose weight. Maybe lower, depending on the healthy minimum (fat people problems, lol.)

The recipe would be broken up across 5 half liter bottles, to be consumed steadily through the day. These aren’t meant for slam & go. I’m considering tweaking the last meal of the day to contain more complex carbs, but I haven’t researched sleep metabolism in any depth. I might increase the protein to carb ratio later in the day, and vice versa in the morning, to try to optimize energy levels.

Here’s some thoughts as I start the tweaking on this formula. Psyllium’s not gonna be a realistic fiber source. I’ve found one insoluble cellulose source that ends up being about 50 cents per day. This might also be a good fit: http://www.nowfoods.com/Supplements/Products-by-Category/Fiber-Supplements/Apple-Fiber-12oz.htm .

Shaking the container will burn extra calories. :wink:

I’m thinking powdered whole milk will be a cheaper source of some nutrients and let me drop the price per day. Some of the other nutrients I will adjust to my recommended mg/kg rda, tailored to me specifically. I’ll be getting the ingredients on Saturday, so I want to optimize this for price and ease as much as possible. My target price is $3.20 per day.

Flavored mixes aren’t a good option, because I’d like to do the flavoring on my own. If I’m gonna do this stuff, then premixed is right out the window. It’s gonna be gourmet flippin Soylent.

Anyone see any targets of opportunity or obvious deficits? (Aside from the complete lack of performing any sort of chemistry calculations on the micronutrients to ascertain the actual amounts being absorbed. I’ll do that later, once the cost and macros are out of the way - I only want to do the hard work once.)


#2

This is a beautiful recipe! Almost the archetype of soylent! Since this recipe is already so good, I’m going to make some really picky suggestions.

We could profitably replace much of the maltodextrin with amylopectin, for a slower carb. I think it’s usually sold to consumers as “waxy maize starch.”

The problem with canola oil is that it is very perishable. In fact canola oil is often already rancid on the store shelf. This problem exists with corn oil and soybean oil as well. My understanding is that this extreme perishability issue exists with oils that are extracted via heat-based processes. Viable alternatives include olive oil and grapeseed oil, which are extracted via cold pressing. Then with such oils there needs to be another oil (probably fish oil, or flaxseed if vegan) to get the omega-3’s. Maybe throw some MCT’s in there for good measure, if you want to make a tradeoff of some price for health.

Here’s some thoughts as I start the tweaking on this formula. Psyllium’s not gonna be a realistic fiber source. I’ve found one insoluble cellulose source that ends up being about 50 cents per day. This might also be a good fit: http://www.nowfoods.com/Supplements/Products-by-Category/Fiber-Supplements/Apple-Fiber-12oz.htm .

We think so alike! Last night I was puzzling over the question of a viable source of insoluble fiber, and had an “oh duh” moment of realizing cellulose would do the trick. This would be profitably combined with dextrin, which is a soluble fiber, to get both kinds of fiber.

Finally, how do you plan to handle the emulsion process? If this isn’t “glass” soylent, it might be simplest to use an emulsifier, correct?


#3

The savings in fat from whole milk would offset the increased cost from switching to a quality olive oil. I’m on board with that.

However, Canola oil has a good concentration of omega 3s - the recipe is including 5g already. I’m not sold on canola going rancid or having perishability issues. In fact, my understanding so far has been that the more processed or refined an oil, the longer it lasts without going bad - there are fewer chemicals at work to contribute to the oxidization of the oil. The darker the oil, the shorter its shelf life.

At 20 cents a day difference, though, it’s not a dealbreaker by any means. It’s easy enough to swap out - the two are virtually identical in nutrient profiles, except for slightly more micros in olive oil.

Waxy maize appears to be more expensive than maltodextrin at first glance - more than twice as much. Maltodextrin weighs in at 60 cents a day, the cheapest waxy maize I could find was $1.60 at bulk pricing.

I’m also not sure why a slower carb is necessary, assuming you’re getting good fiber intake and steady consumption throughout the day?

I could understand counting maltodextrin out if you were consuming all your carbs in 3 or fewer sittings spaced throughout the day, but I’m thinking they should be perfectly alright when consumed steadily, and the fiber will modulate the intake significantly, compared to eating it raw. Am I wrong in that?

The emulsifier choice is a good one - lecithin has its own benefits and doubles as a choline source.


#4

However, Canola oil has a good concentration of omega 3s - the recipe is including 5g already. I’m not sold on canola going rancid or having perishability issues. In fact, my understanding so far has been that the more processed or refined an oil, the longer it lasts without going bad - there are fewer chemicals at work to contribute to the oxidization of the oil. The darker the oil, the shorter its shelf life.

I hope you’re right about this! Canola oil seems almost ideal to me as an oil, being cheap and having a great fat profile, as you touch on. The only complaint I’ve had about it is this perishability issue. I’ll have to do more research and really settle it for myself.

Waxy maize appears to be more expensive than maltodextrin at first glance - more than twice as much. Maltodextrin weighs in at 60 cents a day, the cheapest waxy maize I could find was $1.60 at bulk pricing.

That is an unfortunate discovery!

I’m also not sure why a slower carb is necessary, assuming you’re getting good fiber intake and steady consumption throughout the day?

I could understand counting maltodextrin out if you were consuming all your carbs in 3 or fewer sittings spaced throughout the day, but I’m thinking they should be perfectly alright when consumed steadily, and the fiber will modulate the intake significantly, compared to eating it raw. Am I wrong in that?

That all sounds quite reasonable to me, and is stuff I hadn’t considered! It’s quite possible that maltodextrin alone is good enough, for the reasons you state.

For some anecdata, I used to drink a recipe which had maltodextrin as its sole carb source. What I noticed with this recipe is that I would get suddenly and severely hungry an hour or two after drinking my soylent, and have to drink more. On the other hand this experience of suddenly being hungry does not happen to me with mixes including oat flour.

Of course, if you wish to sip on it all day anyway, you might not be worried about that happening.


#5

Nice work so far. That looks like a great fiber source, good find!

It looks like your listing for potassium iodide doesn’t add any potassium to the recipe as recorded. Same thing for monosodium phosphate and sodium. (Although I’m still getting used to the makesoylent.com site, so feel free to tell me I’m wrong!)

Regarding canola oil and perishability, I use canola oil myself. It was one of the first ingredients I bought when I first set out to make soylent back in March. I’ve kept the same container unrefridgerated (though in cool-ish Pacific Northwest temperatures) since then. With about half of it left, it’s not rancid at all. The brand is Pure Wesson 100% Natural Canola Oil, from Walmart, if that makes a difference.


#6

Yeah, I have several ingredients that have “hidden” effects on the overall nutrient count. I’m saving the chemistry for last - I’ll actually calculate how much potassium and iodine you’d get from the iodate, and then adjust the values accordingly. I’ll vet each ingredient and give them a more robust and complete nutrient profile, then adjust the amounts accordingly to match my own requirements. This is a recipe designed to be as customizable as possible. You can certainly follow prebuilt government or health expert RDAs with fixed level micros, but I plan on tailoring the micros to me, personally. That’s not going to be the best for someone 30 pounds heavier and 8 inches taller, or a woman. That’s a trivial amount of work to do after all the effort of putting together a complete recipe in the first place. :smile:

The recipe as is would probably not be toxic, but it’s still got some tweaking to be done.


#7

I revised the formula again with a good multivitamin, and now the initial purchase price is $320. I might go with a slightly more expensive (per ounce) maltodextrin to get a cheaper initial price, and I’m considering oat flour now for the additional micros, and the amalgam of fiber + macros. Whole milk powder looks to be a great foundational substance. I’m going to perfect the recipe on Saturday once I know whether oat powder is economical and have settled on a lecithin source. If oat powder is economical, I’ll supplement it with soluble fiber (a mix of soluble and insoluble is good.) If not economical, I’ll add in the cellulose source I found and proceed from there.

What lecithin would you recommend, @nwthomas?


#8

What lecithin would you recommend, @nwthomas?

I’ve only tried soy lecithin, and I typically buy locally and buy whatever’s cheapest. Sorry I can’t be of more help. :slight_smile:


#9

No problem - I’ll hit the books tomorrow and hunt something down.


#10

I would recommend thinking about buckwheat flour as it has a lower manganese content then oat flour and also if you are concerned about phytic acid, buckwheat has enough phytase to deal with its own phytic content if you give them a soak in warm water with lemon juice or yogurt @J_Jeffrey_Bragg he knows more on this topic then I do.


#11

That’s a great segue into the non-nutrition aspect of the project. A big part of the idea, for me anyway, is to make things easier and eliminate the cooking/preparation process required for a nutritious diet.

I want to be able to dry-blend/mix the powders after measuring them out into serving size baggies, group the baggies into day and week sized bundles, toss them in my fridge. I want to make a month’s worth of food in one hour. Soaking and precooking and so forth is a big bunch of :cry: imho. I might even get a vacuum sealer to be able to mix the oils in with the powders and toss multiple month’s worth in the freezer. Once I have a tasty and successful formula, anyway.

Instead of emulsifiers, I’m going with a blender ball in a shake bottle. I’m going to tailor the daily rations with caffeine and nutrient profiles. Depending on the taste, I’ll be adding piracetam, L-theanine, and citicoline. Powders tend to be cheaper than caps, anyway.

I tried adding instant milk to the mix, and incorporated cellulose. The dry milk makes it more expensive, surprisingly.The recipe is complete. Each of the macros can be adjusted without having to source anything additional. It consists of whey protein, maltodextrin, and canola oil for the macros, cellulose fiber, a multivitamin, and raw supplements for other micros.

The makesoylent app is broken - can’t add new ingredients, so I’m calling it a night. I’ll review all the other recipes and see if I find anything inspirational, make some notes, and tomorrow I finalize a recipe I can buy.


#12

I got my inspiration from @SuperRob. I hacked his recipe to bits and threw in some of what I’ve learned. http://www.makesoylent.com/recipes/diy-basic-v2

I’m still missing calcium, vitamin C, choline, potassium and sulfur. I will supplement these individually and throw in MSM when I get my next batch of ingredients. 2 weeks without supplementary sulfur should be fine. I’ve locally sourced a couple things and dropped my personal upfront cost to $170 for the first month. Without the supplements, I’m down to $3.51 a day, and after some more tweaks, I should be below the $3.20 point (less than $100 a month.) I’m reading that soy protein gives a chalky texture to the mix, but that’s from people drinking it solo. With the other ingredients and oil, texture shouldn’t be an issue. Soy protein will cut the cost of the protein portion by roughly 1/3, so that should be enough to get the price right after a couple months.

What’s left is flavorings and paraphernalia. I’ll buy a blender, a scale, some small spoons, 4 28 oz bottles for the meals. I’ll get a 10ml syringe for oils and finally some baggies to package it all in. For flavorings, I’ll be experimenting with things I can get in the baking section at Walmart.


#13

Is the fiber content intentional? It seems low to me.


#14

Sorry, I’d removed the oat powder to determine what the cost effectiveness would be switching to pure maltodextrin. I didn’t reset the changes, lol. Fixing that now.


#15

@jrowe47 - I’m using your recipe as a template, though I’m not sure how much mine is going to resemble yours when I’m done with it - but I’m curious as to your decision to include the flax meal. Was that for omega 3, or fiber? Is the fiber still low, or is that just where you decided to put it personally?


#16

What would you think about replacing canola oil with hemp oil?
I use it for my recipe because the monounsaturated to polyunsaturated fat ratio is much better and contains about 3 times the omega complex.

Canola oil (1Tbsp):
Monounsaturated Fat 8.9 g
Polyunsaturated Fat 3.9 g
Omega-3 fatty acids 1.279 g
Omega-6 fatty acids 2.610 g

Hemp Oil(1Tbsp):
Monounsaturated Fat 10.8 g
Polyunsaturated Fat 1.7 g
Omega-3 fatty acids 3.3 g
Omega-6 fatty acids 7.2 g

Plus it has a nice nutty taste.

The drawback would be the price, I get it for $12.20/24 oz.
http://www.amazon.com/Nutiva-Organic-Hemp-24-Ounce-Bottle/dp/B000GAO91K/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1376417456&sr=8-1&keywords=hemp+oil

For my formula it costs me about $0.50 a day, but it actually get me my daily recommended value for omegas in 1Tbsp.

What do you think? (I am also trying to improve my formula)


#17

The flax meal is a holdover from the hacker school soylent, which made it to @SuperRob’s super soylent, which made it to my diy basic. Their recipes are much more generally complete without supplementation, which is a good thing.

As to the hemp oil, go for it! I chose olive oil because of the price, and will likely switch to a mix of canola and coconut for better ratios. I currently have about 60 days left of fish oil caps which I’m using til they run out. Why waste them, right?

The fiber is still low, but I’ll be adding more soluble fiber, since most of the fiber already there is insoluble. The flax is there for fiber and omegas.


#18

Any updates to this? I loved Rob’s SuperSoylent but unfortunately Trader Joe’s isn’t opening in my area until late September (at which point I might as well just wait for the “real thing”!) so I need a version that I can source locally or via Amazon.

This is the most promising recipe I’ve come across but I wasn’t sure how many updates have been pushed to the MakeSoylent recipe page, whether it’s still a work in progress, and whether you’ve actually constructed this and have any further insight to impart. Thanks so much for sharing!


#19

I’ve constructed it - right now the fiber is low and it’s not very filling.The nutrients are great and it keeps you going through the day, in terms of energy. It needs some work, but I like it so far. It tastes great! I’m revisiting some ingredients like coconut flour and oil for MCTs.


#20

@sarahselwyn315 Are those mono/poly numbers right for hemp oil? The pictures at the Amazon link show poly is 11g, mono is 2g. That’s flipped from what you have above.