Extremely negative review of Coffiest/Soylent


#1

Be warned, it ain’t pretty.


#2

This paragraph seems entirely inaccurate:

“On the Soylent Meal Plan, in order to meet your caloric requirements, you would consume roughly 5 times the recommended amount of fat, more than double the amount of protein, and three times as much sugar as advised; yet your intake of fiber would be less than half the recommended amount (unless you opt for the powder). This hardly constitutes as the healthy, complete food that’s going to save the world.”

It seems like someone had trouble with math (specifically multiplication) in school. I am not sure how the author comes up with those multiples.


#3

@inquirerer

I agree. This review is factually incorrect.

Soylent 2.0 (2000 kcals):
Total Fat: 105g
Cholesterol: 0mg
Sodium: 1500mg
Total Carbohydrates: 185g
Dietary Fiber: 15g
Added Sugars: 45g
Protein: 100g
http://files.soylent.com/pdf/soylent-nutrition-facts-2-0-en.pdf

FDA Recommended Daily Values (2000 kcals):
Total Fat: 65g
Cholesterol: 300mg
Sodium: 2400mg
Total Carbohydrates: 300g
Dietary Fiber: 25g
Added Sugars: 50g
Protein: 50g
http://www.fda.gov/Food/GuidanceRegulation/GuidanceDocumentsRegulatoryInformation/LabelingNutrition/ucm064928.htm


#4

They conveniently glossed over the lower sodium, and that dastardly isomaltulose “sugar” has claimed another victim!

financial analysts too busy doing the Lord’s work to cook themselves a proper meal.

They’re from Iceland, I’ll give 'em this one.

algan oil

An unfortunate mix-up of the correct ingredient, whole algal oil, and I’m assuming argan oil?

Food isn’t just fuel, after all, even for people who can’t be bothered to eat it.

Funny because cows have more than double the taste buds humans have and they eat grass all day. If they haven’t all committed group suicide by now, I’ll assume we’re all pretty safe too.

but after having Coffiest first as a late-night snack

Oh yeah, just a regular caffeine night cap.

One said he liked it, but was concerned about the high levels of soy.

There’s always one.

You would need to drink 4 to 6 bottles per day (depending on your gender) to stay energized, and when you multiply the intake of Soylent by this many servings, the daily amounts of protein, fat, and added sugar skyrocket.

Not sure if skyrocket is an official term but generally you will find that when you multiply something, the ingredients within that something also multiply.

In the world of Soylent, we lose out on so much diversity in our food and in the way we use cooking, eating, and sharing to connect with each other.

Okay sure, except it isn’t the “world” of Soylent. If it were sold in stores, it would be in between two isles of hundreds of pounds of food. Fill your shopping cart with both, nobody is going to refuse to let you leave the store because you “couldn’t make up your mind”.

no farmer in their right mind is going to trade fresh food grown on their farm for an artificial bottle of sort-of coffee.

lol what if they’re a soybean farmer.


#5

One said he liked it, but was concerned about the high levels of soy.

I can’t believe this article is allowing such fear-mongering misinformation to propagate. Rosa Labs has conducted mountains of careful research before deciding to switch over to a soy-based protein and concluded the soy in Soylent is completely harmless.

This is what @rob said about the impact of soy in Soylent:

Because we’re not using whole soy, we’re just using the protein isolate…the isoflavone levels are much lower than what they would be in soy flour or tofu. There are some levels, but they’re well below any that have shown to have an effect. There was somewhat specious research in the past on what impact soy can have on testosterone levels and those have been widely debunked. We’ve certainly done our research here and we’ll be posting our analysis on the Web as well.

Maybe I could regard this review as more than an uninformed, poorly-sourced rant if it actually took the time to incorporate a scientific perspective.


#6

oh they also criticized the fact that men will need to pay more because they require more calories. And human biology is Rosa Labs’ fault? lol.


#7

I’ve seen the quote but haven’t seen them talking much about it since so I’m not sure whether that’s still their view. That the soy protein isolate is that much lower in isoflavones, that is.

Soylent 1.6 has 115.5 grams of soy protein isolate. It’s 53 mg isoflavones per serving so 115.5 grams of soy protein isolate provides a total of 212 mg isoflavones. Or 183 mg isoflavones per 100 grams soy protein isolate. 100 grams of soy flour, full-fat, raw contains 178.10 mg total isoflavones. 100 grams of tofu, dried-frozen contains 83.20 mg of isoflavones. (https://www.ars.usda.gov/SP2UserFiles/Place/80400525/Data/isoflav/Isoflav_R2.pdf) (Although the USDA document indicates 91.05 total isoflavones per 100 grams for mean soy protein isolate, RL gives a higher value closer to the max of 199.25.)


#8

Mucho wrong with the article, unsurprisingly since some are so dogmatically chained to the current way people eat, but the following is my favorite (or least favorite I guess).

“In the world of Soylent, we lose out on so much diversity in our food and in the way we use cooking, eating, and sharing to connect with each other.”

You lose out on connecting with others if you eat a certain way, says the person that has disdain for others that eat a certain way. Self-fulfilling prophecy. Yeah, if someone shuns you because of how you eat then you lose connections because of how you eat, but you aren’t the problem in that scenario, rather the person shunning you because you eat differently is the problem.

Anybody can have a connection with anybody else anytime they want regardless of eating. The person that wrote that article was connecting with others when they wrote the article but nobody knows or cares if he or she was eating at the time. And the same goes for in person interaction. When is the last time you were interacting with someone and thought to yourself “This would be better if both of us were eating right now, especially if we were eating something other than Soylent.”

ETA: Just to be clear, I’ve never had Coffiest and I likely never will since I’m not a fan of coffee. That’s part of the point though, namely that the negative review of Coffiest isn’t a negative review of Coffiest per se but rather is the inevitable result of someone that just doesn’t like the idea.


#9

@inod3

You can also see Rosa Labs’s opinion of soy reiterated in their Amazon FAQ guide:

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/619duuQZPHL.pdf

From that USDA PDF you linked it states that soy protein isolate has 91.05 isoflavones, vs. 178.10 mg isoflavones for soy flour, and 154.53 isoflavones from raw soybeans.

And there are other articles which mention Soy Protein Isolate having lower isoflavone content, for example:

(https://examine.com/nutrition/is-soy-good-or-bad-for-me/)

This process does not undergo further ethanol extraction, and thus still has isoflavone content. Due to the first hexane extraction where oil was removed from the soybean (prior to the formation of ‘white flakes’), the Soy Protein Isolate does not have 100% of the isoflavone content of soybeans, but around 38-46% (or 0.5-0.6mg/g).[11][1]

(http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12822960)

Whole soybean milks had significantly higher isoflavone levels than those made from soy protein isolates (mean +/- SD, 63.6 +/- 21.9 mg/L, n = 43, vs 30.2 +/- 5.8 mg/L, n = 38, respectively, p < 0.0001), although some isolated soy protein-based milks were similar in content to “whole bean” varieties.

Those types of articles are probably where @rob and Soylent were able to make that statement.

While it does appear weird that Soylent would seem to have higher isoflavone levels than its peers, it is also important to keep in mind that the isoflavone levels present within soy protein isolate can vary significantly between each batch.

(http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/mic/dietary-factors/phytochemicals/soy-isoflavones)

Some foods that are rich in soy isoflavones are listed in Table 1, along with their isoflavone content (107). Because the isoflavone content of soy foods can vary considerably between brands and between different lots of the same brand (106), these values should be viewed only as a guide.

(https://ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12822960)

The reliability of databases on the isoflavone composition of foods designed to estimate dietary intakes is contingent on the assumption that soy foods are consistent in their isoflavone content. To validate this, total and individual isoflavone compositions were determined by HPLC for two different soy protein isolates used in the commercial manufacture of soy foods over a 3-year period (n = 30/isolate) and 85 samples of 40 different brands of soy milks. Total isoflavone concentrations differed markedly between the soy protein isolates, varying by 200-300% over 3 years, whereas the protein content varied by only 3%. Total isoflavone content varied by up to 5-fold among different commercial soy milks and was not consistent between repeat purchases. Whole soybean milks had significantly higher isoflavone levels than those made from soy protein isolates (mean +/- SD, 63.6 +/- 21.9 mg/L, n = 43, vs 30.2 +/- 5.8 mg/L, n = 38, respectively, p < 0.0001), although some isolated soy protein-based milks were similar in content to “whole bean” varieties. The ratio of genistein to daidzein isoflavone forms was higher in isolated soy protein-based versus “whole bean” soy milks (2.72 +/- 0.24 vs 1.62 +/- 0.47, respectively, p < 0.0001), and the greatest variability in isoflavone content was observed among brands of whole bean soy milks. These studies illustrate large variability in the isoflavone content of isolated soy proteins used in food manufacture and in commercial soy milks and reinforce the need to accurately determine the isoflavone content of foods used in dietary intervention studies while exposing the limitations of food databases for estimating daily isoflavone intakes.

Just because in the initial tests the isoflavone content within Soylent was 52-53 isoflavones per serving, doesn’t mean that every batch of Soylent will yield the exact same levels. Some might have significantly lower levels.

Either way, what’s important about Rob’s quote is that meta-analyses of large numbers of isoflavone studies on the impact of male feminization continue to be inconclusive at best.

(http://www.fertstert.org/article/S0015-0282(09)00966-2/fulltext)

Fifteen placebo-controlled treatment groups with baseline and ending measures were analyzed. In addition, 32 reports involving 36 treatment groups were assessed in simpler models to ascertain the results. The results of this meta-analysis suggest that neither soy foods nor isoflavone supplements alter measures of bioavailable testosterone concentrations in men.

So given the meta-analyses on clinical studies of isoflavones, I’m siding with Rosa Labs and @rob’s comment.


#10

But modern media is driven by fear-mongering. If they dropped the fear-mongering, nobody would read it and they’d all starve! Starve, I tell you!!


#11

I feel bamboozled. I thought I was reading something written by a hot artsy chick.

Lies, all lies.


#12

That article is mindless clickbait and was written by either an idiot or a troll.


#13

Wow, 40 extra grams of fat? Somehow I missed that.

There’s nothing new in this article, other than the bad math. These are fairly constant from anyone promoting whole foods or organics.


#14

To me, this is the most entertaining quote:

I’m sure it varies depending on what part of the country/world you’re from, but all the farmers I know only grow 2-3 crops. Typically, corn and soybeans are the 2 biggest. At best you’ll get 50/50 odds on the choice between Soylent and a heaping bowl of corn. Make the choice between Coffiest and a bowl of soybeans, and the Coffiest would be a clear winner.

Then there’s the guy in the ad, I guess he’s shown with bales of hay? So either he grows hay, or he raises livestock. A farmer who eats hay is going to starve pretty quickly, and one who eats his livestock constantly is going to run out of livestock before he can sell anything – and starve.


#15

If they had bothered to use the 2015 Dietary guidelines rather than 2010 they’d see there IS NO MORE UPPER LIMIT ON FAT.
Although there is an upper limit on saturated fat, which Soylent is well below.


#16

This guy obviously hasn’t use the product a lot. Probably just tasted it. I work 12 hours a day in a mill and all I have is soylent 1.whatever and i’m fine. As long as its somewhat not killing me and actually keeping me alive better then fast food does it can taste like ass for all I care.