Is supplementing with Vegetable powder and fruit great or unnecessary?


#1

Hey.

I like the idea of supplementing with vegetable powders, but I don’t see anybody doing it and I wonder why?

I especially like the Chlorella algae powder because it is claimed to be good for weightlifting.

I’ve spend many days working on a DIY Soylent recipe that I believe suits my needs with respect to heavy weightlifting: https://diy.soylent.com/recipes/weightlifting-soylent-healthy-fruit-not-simple
Any critique on the recipe will be deeply appreciated.

Thanks in advance


#2

A little high on iron. Look for multivitamins without iron.


#3

Thank you for the response! :slight_smile:

I thought about that too, but the relatively high amount of phytic acid in oats, almonds, cacao etc. should bind a decent amount of Iron, magnesium and some other minerals.
It could still be a bit too much though. It is hard to say.


#4

I’m going to go out on a limb here and say yes to both. Its a great idea but isn’t necessary and probably depends on your reasons for wanting to supplement with it.


#5

Thanks for your opinion!.
I guess i’m just scared that some of the research which states that antioxidants and phytochemicals are good and healthy, are correct. If I knew 100 percent that those chemicals didn’t matter I would gladly save my money. But there are a lot of contradicting research so I am still not sure.
Health is my number one priority and it is hard to do the right thing when it’s hard to know which studies to listen to.


#6

I use a greens powder with 22 kinds of vegetables. I think it’s great and it comes with flavoring so there’s no vegetable taste at all, just tropical flavor.
If I had to drink one of the european soylents I would still drink the veggies separate.

Recipe is here https://diy.soylent.com/recipes/happy-food-perfect-health-diet (Work in progress, I too need a new multivitamin)


#7

I really like your recipe!. But aren’t you scared about getting too much saturated fat?. I had a decent amount too from a lot of coconut flour, and I loved it because it tasted like a bounty bar :). But I reduced it because I read that high amounts of fat could strain some of your organs in the long run. :o


#8

Thanks :smile:

The fats in coconut flour are nearly all Medium Chain Triglycerides, this fat is transported directly to the liver and burned for energy - the body simply can’t store it. It may be hard on the body, but then again, my body really should be able to process half a can of coconut milk over the course of a day…

The Perfect Health Diet I’m semi-following also says not to use vegetable oils :confused: And that unsaturated fats are bad in large amounts, yet 55% of kcals from fats… I would use eggs but yuck :smiley: Even bought whole egg powder (yuck)

I like your recipe too, is the coconut flour actually a flour? I only found dessicated coconut/kokosmel at supermarkets but way too large grains to drink, better on cakes :smiley:


#9

Could you send me a link about not using vegetable oils?. I have read something similar too but I’ve also read a lot about avoiding too much saturated fat, and I found it pretty much impossible to avoid both :).

I can send you a link to the coconutflour i’m using as it seems like we’re both from Europe/Denmark: http://www.bulkpowders.dk/kokosmel.html. It is actually pretty cheap and it is easy to drink -no large grains. I can recommend it!.

Egg powder sounds lovely compared to the stupid things I have done. I tried putting in a lot of Quinoa, Rice Protein, Pea Protein and Hemp Protien. I was so close to vomiting :D.
-Too bad because I really want to make a recipe with no Dairy-related products. My plan is to slowly replace whey protein with plant protein week by week :slight_smile:


#10

I agree with @horsfield - vegetable powder and fruit are great. They’re also unnecessary.

For that matter, I think weightlifting is great. I also think it’s unnecessary.

That being said, I lift weights, and I use a multivitamin that provides a range of phytonutrients, mostly from vegetable and fruit extracts. Both are unnecessary, but why not? They’re great.


#11

Just another opinion to heed or ignore, but I’ll throw it in there: I think you’re best served, health-wise and progress-wise, if you limit the amount of time you spend trying to figure out which fats a magically good or bad for you. Instead, get your macros right for yourself and be consistent at the gym. Time spent doing those two things will generate massive rewards; time spent reading various gurus online tends to lead to uncertainty and doubt - and regret about the time wasted.

If you do seek a guru in the health/diet/lifting world, I strongly recommend Alan Aragon, because the things he espouses are rooted strongly in the best research. (And if you’re a wonk about analyzing scientific studies on exercise and nutrition, check out the Alan Aragon Research Review; good stuff.)


#12

I disagree. I believe that if you are going to eat by the exact same recipe every day it has to be correctly balanced. A minor imbalance could built up over the years and decrease your total lifespan by multiple years. Nobody knows for sure.
And even though I have some years of experience in the bodybuilding world, I do not believe in the “Just count your macros” mentality. I believe it works for gains etc, but not for health in general. But it is still nice to hear other peoples opinion so keep em coming :slight_smile:


#13

Thanks for the info on the coconut flour, that sounds like what I’ve been looking for.

The no vegetable oil is from here http://perfecthealthdiet.com/the-diet/ , specifically:

Polyunsaturated fats should be a small fraction of the diet (~4% of total calories). To achieve this, do not eat seed oils such as soybean oil, corn oil, safflower oil, sunflower oil, canola oil, or the like.

Sounds like a nasty mix you made there :smiley: I use the sprouted brown rice protein from myprotein, tastes pretty good/neutral.
I tried the sprouted barley flour - tastes overwhelmingly like cut grass even at 30g per day, ideal carb source maybe but not for me :no_mouth:


#14

I know for sure that the Bantu people eat a nearly vegan diet high in grains and carbs, with fats from seed oils, and have been healthy… while the Aleut traditionally eat a diet whose calories primarily consist of blubber, and have been healthy… and these peoples’ genomes are 99.999% similar to ours.

The notable thing about a successful species, like humans, is not dietary specificity - it’s the ability to thrive on widely varying diets. Specialization leads to extinction.


#15

Imbalance in the form of minor deficiencies are not a problem… imbalance in the form of too much of something is bad.

Like for example the vegetable oils. The bantu did eat lots of vegetable oils and paid the price:

Bantu tribes such as the Kikuyu and Wakamba were agriculturists. Their diet consisted of sweet potatoes, corn, beans, bananas, millet and kaffir corn or sorghum. They were less robust than their meat-eating neighbors, and tended to be dominated by them.
http://www.susunweed.com/herbal_ezine/July05/empower.htm

Now of course we don’t know if vegetable oils are bad, we just know the Perfect Health Diet recommends max 4% of daily calories from polyunsaturated fats and we know that places like southern europe where they eat lots of vegetable oils also have the highest rates of heart diseases. Tribes that historically ate high amounts of saturated animal fats had no heart diseases (previous link).

That’s for a macronutrient even. Most of the micros, minerals and vitamins are also bad/toxic/fatal in high doses. With all the processed ingredients, nutrient information tyranny and whatnot, I for sure can relate to Ownedit’s worries.


#16

Yeah, Bulkpowders is actually a pretty cool store which has some products that Myprotein doesn’t have. They have a cool multivitamin powder too. Unfortunately they do not have crazy 20-25% discounts all the time like Myprotein :slight_smile: .
Ahhh, polyunsaturated fats. That is why I use Olive oil which is relatively low in polyunsaturated fats. Then you could also argue that nuts like almonds should be avoided completely :). EDIT: I just saw that he does not advocate avoiding olive oil completely, which makes sence because olives actually are fruits :slight_smile:
Hmm. I thought the riceprotein was one of the powders that made me puke. I will try to replace some whey protein gradually with riceprotein if you say it tastes fine. It smells like crap though :).

EDIT: About your second post:
“tended to be dominated by them” - Haha, that can really mean a lot of different things.
I would argue that the source you are referring to aren’t close to being reliable. The article is written by Sally Fallon. She has no scientific background whatsoever. She has studied english but that doesn’t really count. Actually that can be quite negative, because it could hint to her just writing articles and writing books to make money.
She is actually a founder of “Weston A. Price Foundation” which is being criticised of being sponsored by the meat-industry -among other things. As an example, here is a vid where Colin T. Campbell criticises the foundation https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxb7XPm_SxU.
Colin T. Campbell, as opposed to Sally Fallon, has a scientific background and a Ph.D. in nutrition, biochemistry, and microbiology. He has spend all his life researching nutrition and he is also the author of “The China Study” which is a book based on the biggest nutritional study ever made.


#17

You know for sure? Unless you have a very reliable source for that claim I doubt that you can know for sure. The lifespan of the Aleut people is not close to being great.
Now when we are talking tribes I can then mention some of the cultures with the highest lifespan (The healthiest lifes) such as the “Vilcabamba” and “Hunza” cultures who eats 99% plantbased foods, the “Abkhasia” culture who eats 90% plantbased foods and the “Okinawa” culture who eats only small amounts of animal-based foods, which is mostly raw fish. Source: http://www.eco-friendly-africa-travel.com/longevity-diet.html#. While the article is lagging in references, the facts can be confirmed by some of the people who have spent years examinating these cultures. I especially like this video about the Okinava culture: https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=47&v=ZwX9Ll19cX0.
While humans can thrive on a lot of different diets for longer periods of time, the choice of diet seems to effect the longevity and what kind of diseases you’ll get in the long term.


#18

I’m not arguing here about what exactly is ideal for health and longevity. My point is merely that human societies have survived for generations and for millennia on diets at either extreme of the spectra, whether looking at carb versus protein, or fiber levels, animal versus plant… proving nothing but this: the human body is very flexible and resilient…

… and I’m stressing this point in order to support the idea that someone striving for a healthy diet need not focus too heavily on exact ratios or exact amounts of any given thing, macro or micro.

To think that Soylent may have some sort of cumulative “bad effect” over time because it’s slightly low or slightly high in one thing or another belies the proven ability of our bodies to deal with major differences, never mind minor ones!

There is general nutritional advice out there - and let’s be far, it’s good advice - that says you should eat a variety of foods. But this isn’t good advice because eating variety necessarily gets you a perfect blend of foods. In fact, it pretty much can’t - any variety you pick will be imperfect in some ways, low on this and high on that, unless you choose the variety by targeting macros and micros to hit a specific set of targets - which is exactly how to formulate Soylent.

The reason “variety” is good advice for most people is that we all have food preferences. We all tend to like certain foods. And if we eat mostly those foods, we’re missing the stuff that’s in other foods. The classic example is the “meat and potatoes man.” He needs more variety - and variety does not mean more types of meat or different kinds of potato, it means adding veggies to the mix, because that’s what’s missing.

Soylent is different because it’s designed from the start not to be missing something in the mix.


#19

What we just know is that tribes that extensively partake in hunting with bow and spear will be better at fighting with weapons like bow and spear than tribes that primarily partake in agriculture, so when they come to blows, the hunters turn out to be better hunters. Believing this advantage is conferred by their meat-based diet is a bit silly, to me.

In the modern world, maybe meat eaters can out-compete the non-meat eaters while in the refrigerated aisles of the supermarket, because of their enhanced cold tolerance.


#20

Observations are just that, observations, no need for Ph.d’s to ask people what they eat. :smile:

“They were less robust than their meat-eating neighbors”. That means he looked at people from two tribes, with people from one tribe being larger or having higher muscle weight.

The conclusion that vegetable oils was the cause is mine :slight_smile: And yeah, probably wrong. I don’t mean to sound like an advocate for anything. I’m just some guy who doesn’t like vegetable oils and love losing weight and feeling awesome and energized with lots of tasty, saturated fats :smiley: