K.I.S.S. diy soylent,$1.05/day


#1

I’m at it again, and this time I want to create a cheap diy soylent using readily available ingredients. The multivitamin may be the hardest for some to source. I’m using Rob’s Newest Recommended RDA (which needs substantiation. I’m not sure if this is the right target to be aiming for.) It occurred to me during recent discussions on the forum that people haven’t seen how cheap complete nutrition can be, nor is there an easily accessible diy (the headliner depends on access to a Trader Joe’s.) This is designed to get you the best bang for your buck.

http://diy.soylent.me/recipes/kiss

This recipe is nutritionally complete. There are some interesting considerations. The molybdenum, sulfur, and copper interact with eachother to limit the total effective uptake of each, and according to my napkin calculations, they each end up under 150% rda. Selenium intake is well under any danger levels.

I’m at the $31.50 USD/month pricepoint, and I have some ideas to lower it more - the recipe provides complete nutrition and 2000 calories a day with 31g of fiber.

My posts and updates were a stream of consciousness. I’ll clean it up and make the thread a bit more navigable :smiley:


#3

[My current recipe][1] is just at $4 a day, and there are plenty of ways to lower that further. The major downside is that it contains next to no sugars, so it doesn’t taste very good on its own. I’ve been using it as a base for various flavor templates, and it works perfectly in that regard. I’m swallowing a single pill a day (the centrum), but there’s no reason you can’t grind it up into powder to stir in to the mix.

it’s still a little low in vitamin k though…
[1]: http://diy.soylent.me/recipes/kosher-lowcarb-baked-soylent-for-weight-loss


#4

Having chronic overages is not going to be optimal for your health - that’s why I’m trying to keep the ranges under 150%. The closer to 100% I get, the better.

Vitamin B12 is at 400% , Vitamin K, 220%, Vitamin D 200%, Molybdenum 160% .

Vitamin B12 being over should be ok. It’s water soluble and excess is easily filtered out - it doesn’t stick around to cause chronic issues.

The recommended amount of Vitamin K is 120 mcg, so the 176 in the recipe is 146% of the recommended dosage. It’s fat soluble. There’s no recognized upper limit, and no clearly defined chronic toxicity studies. Still worth watching and regulating.

The RDA for Vitamin D is tricky, because it presumes some sort of default level of sun exposure and natural production. Normal people should get around 600 IU per day, 400 from diet, 200 from sunlight. I work graveyard shifts. The most sun I get is the sunrise in my face as I drive home. 800 Should be fine, even long term.

120 mcg of molybdenum is well within the upper limit - in fact, it’s only a little over what most Americans get in their everyday diet.

I want additional choline, as I use some nootropics that require choline supplementation.

Manganese and chloride are the only two significantly lacking. Chloride is probably fine, because nu-salt doesn’t list the chloride content (FDA labeling requirements are so full of brains and winning.)

So if all I need is manganese, it should prove a pretty solid recipe. The trouble is the agglomeration of all the micros in the vitamin - it’s hard to replace.


#5

I substituted that soy protein and reached $85 a month.

I can’t seem to find good numbers for the chloride intake from potassium chloride, but my presumption at this point is that with iodised salt and nu-salt, the chloride levels will get hit.

Bulk corn starch can be gotten for around ~1000g/$1 , making it 2.5 times more cost effective than maltodextrin as a carb source. It’s also higher GI, tasteless, and effective for what we’re doing here.

With corn starch, each daily serving is around 30 cents, bringing the cost down to ~$73 per month.

I’m going to look for a better vitamin source, and see if I can start taming these numbers. $60 is the target now, and it looks possible.

I need to shave off roughly 30 cents from the daily cost. I can probably do that by getting a cheaper vitamin, a better source of lecithin, and some other tweaks. If I can find raw food solutions vs pills, even better.


#9

Hmm, looks vegan, too. I’ll have to tweak the omega ratios.

I’m going to freeze this recipe in place, then start incorporating oat flour and some of the official Soylent ingredients to see if I can perfect ratios.


#10

It’s like you’re a wizard or something. I’m gonna save this, thank you.


#11

Lol, I’m shocked myself. I’ve twiddled around with olive oil and reached 100% omega 3/6 ratio, alongside 100% all others. I am considering increasing the amount of calcium in order to moderate the manganese, iron, and zinc levels. After I review the interactions between these I’ll have a better idea on dosages. Even though they’re well under the safe upper limits, I’m still not perfectly pleased.


#12

Awesome work @jrowe47. I’m currently sourcing smaller amounts of the ingredients to try your recipe before buying in bulk and have two questions:

  1. Did you get all of your nutrition info off of product labels or did you have to go to a second source for some micronutrients? E.g. for the Canola Oil I’m looking at, it does not provide info about fatty acids or vitamin E or K. Does the Canola Oil that you’re using having this information on the label or what?
  2. Have you tried this recipe yet yourself? Any tips on best flavoring option that won’t affect the micros?

Thanks!


#13

Cocoa powder, vanilla flavoring - things like that. You can adjust amounts to get the best bang for your buck. I’ve dug up my nutrition info from labeling and/or the USDA database.

Soy lecithin may end up being necessary for texture, which means getting rid of choline bitartrate, and the price will go up about 10 cents.


#14

http://shop.honeyville.com/wheat-protein-isolate.html - wheat protein isolate seems to be much cheaper. It’s roughly 85% protein by weight, and it’s a complete protein.

The soy protein isolate is 3.68 a pound, and the wheat is 2.50 a pound, with more protein. It obviously wouldn’t be good for gluten sensitive people, but they have the soy as an alternative. That knocks about 10 cents off the price.


#15

Looks like there’s a bit of extra calcium, so you could knock another penny off by decreasing calcium carbonate from 1.5 to 1g per day.

Edit: got a bit confused by the recipe calling calcium carbonate baking soda (which is actually sodium bicarbonate, no?)

Edit 2: Ah, re-reading your post re calcium as moderator. Suppose that makes my above idea moot.


#17

Lol, yeah, fixing the baking soda comment.

http://diy.soylent.me/recipes/cheap-complete-2 - 98 cents a day, Only concern is the oil ratios.


#18

So it turns out that Omega 6 oils RDA are based on shabby science, and it’s likely that the actual need is 5 to 15 times smaller than the recommended amounts. The only stable recommendation I can find is to have anywhere from a 1:1 to 4:1 ratio of 6 to 3. This recipe meets that requirement easily, and has more than enough omega 3.


#20

I wouldn’t call a single person disagreeing with the RDA as at all definitive. I would still trust the RDA and play it safe by having the amount they recommend


#21

When they’re pointing out that the emperor is naked, the disputation is definitive, in my book - the science was flawed. It’s not to say that there isn’t supportive evidence but there is no firm established minimum (the report in dispute was considered the seminal, definitive resource,) but there is a pretty firm established interaction with omega-3s. You need both, but there’s not an established minimum amount of omega-6s. My recipe is actually in line with the ratios, and exceeds the more scientifically established minimum omega 3 content.


#22

So how is the Cheap Complete prepared? Is the wheat being baked into bread or is the entire thing going into a blender? Has anyone started using this or is it still theoretical? What is the airspeed velocity of an unladen swallow?


#23

How is the Cheap Complete prepared?

I’m not sure yet. I’m going to be buying a much smaller set of ingredients for some experimentation, and I have some neat (and marketable) ideas.

Is the wheat being baked into bread or is the entire thing going into a blender?

Bread or blender or pressed into bars, or separated and cooked into a soup with appropriate spices, etc. Still cogitating.

Has anyone started using this or is it still theoretical?

Still theoretical. And finally…

What is the airspeed velocity of an unladen swallow?

Unladen, around 24 mph. With 400g of Cheap Complete, much slower, but if we can train those little suckers to deliver, I think we’ve got a business plan.


#24

New guy here first post yaysies! Anyways after looking at this well since the other day it looks like it has two new ingredients, but they are incomplete. Olive Oil is fine, but the Sulfur does not seem to be filled out properly.

And soy protein was removed and replaced with wheat protein. hrrrmmm.

Was planning on replacing the soy protein with whey protein almost the same price and have been looking to replace the soy flour with something else as well but was interested in trying it the way it was listed. Has anyone actually tried this yet? How close to done is it?


#25

Regarding omega-3 and omega-6, I agree that the default DRI information is basically garbage (particularly the 17g DRI for omega-6).

The actual ω-6 DRI is significantly reduced based on adequate ω-3 intake. For reference, studies have shown that ω-6 deficiencies are eliminated by 1-2% of calories as LA if the diet has no ω-3 (http://pmid.us/20102846), and by just 0.3% of calories as LA if the diet has over 1% ω-3 (http://pmid.us/14559071). Thus, a little ω-3 in the diet reduces the requirement for ω-6.

I’ve designed my own recipes according to the above DRIs, and I have also defined an upper boundary for each based on 4% of total energy (and 10% of total energy from PUFA in all forms), which serves to limit the potential for oxidative stress from excessive PUFA intake (which remains a concern even when taken in carefully protected forms near the ideal ratio of ω-6 to ω-3).


#26

One thing is I’m pretty sure the potassium from the nu-salt isn’t a very biologically available form, an actual potassium suppliment would be more appropriate ( although the potassium from the soy is already a good amount on it’s own )

I wonder how easy it is to swap the soy stuff, a friend of mine is allergic to soy.