Liquid vs pill vitamins


#1

Is there any reason to get liquid or vice versa?
http://www.amazon.com/Natures-Way-Potency-Multi-Vitamin-Tablets/dp/B0009F3RO2/ref=cm_cmu_pg__header seems to pretty much be the pill form of this
http://www.amazon.com/Natures-Way-Alive-Liquid-Ounce/dp/B0019I8NXS/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_nC?ie=UTF8&colid=3T9ZEL77EWQXZ&coliid=IIV7O1NWT6T80
except it’s only a couple bucks more but has twice as many servings.
My only guess is that the pills are large and may be difficult to swallow, but I plan on crushing them up and adding them to the soylent, so…yeah. The other concern is that they could make it taste gross, but the liquid could too. And lastly, the concern of them separating/sinking to the bottom should be taken care of with lecithin, yes? It just seems to me that getting them in pill form is more cost effective and still more convenient than buying all the individual things.


#2

First off that Alive liquid is freaking nasty. It stinks and tastes horrible.

But yeah, go ahead and get normal pill vitamins and crush them up if you want. There are a bunch of people on here that are doing that. Just make sure that they contain what you need and you should be good to go.

Personally I am still using the liquid, and it is just because I spent money on it. Once it is gone I will switch to a pill as well. But some how I don’t think I will ever run out of the liquid death.


#3

I mean, it’s full of vitamins and shit…I wouldn’t expect it to taste super good. It just seems like the pills are more cost effective, which is what I’m most concerned about.
Why did you get the liquid, if you don’t mind me asking?


#4

I bought the vitamins recently and they are a very reasonable size, much smaller than most of my other multivitamins. I also crush mine and haven’t had any problems.


#5

I got the liquid because I was a fool and I was following someone else recipe without doing all the research myself. Which I kind of am still not doing the research that I need to do.
Pretty much the shipping time for some of the stuff was so long that I wanted to get it ordered, and then I would do the tweaking of the recipe after I tried it. Patience isn’t one of my virtues.
I did most of my reading and research while I was waiting for items to arrive. It was during that time that I realized that I had made some mistakes.


#6

I am not particularly convinced in the merits of even crushing the vitamins. I suppose it might increase absorption (if for example the vitamin pill is too dense to be properly absorbed) but I haven’t heard of any evidence for this other than general internet speculation (speculation which would account for the existence of liquid multis). It might also be that by crushing you lose some of the vitamins as sediment at the bottom.

Unless I learn otherwise my plan is to take the pills separately (less effort and keeps the drink more palatable). I have no problems taking handfuls of pills at once.


#7

To me, crushing the vitamins would primarily be for allowing them to mix better into the Soylent mixture rather than necessarily for absorption. I know I would prefer to have it crushed and mixed into the Soylent rather than taking pills, personally.


#8

I think the premise is less about absorption rates and more about spreading the vitamins/minerals out throughout the course of the day rather than taking them all at once.


#9

I think I’ll rather take the multi vitamin/mineral tablets as a tablet with water. Although a liquid or powder multi vitamin/mineral sounds better to me, but I’m still searching for that. If you crush/grind your multi tablets be sure to use a marble mortar, otherwise you risk losing potential essential substances.


#10

Ah yeh, makes sense. Not convinced personally that would make much of a difference to the body however (as vits / mins are kinda long term things), but can see the logic (perhaps the body can handle larger amounts spread out more optimally?).

Interestingly, the best multivitamins tend to be multi day affairs, so you may be onto something :wink: - http://www.aor.ca/products-page/5-methyltetrahydrofolate-5-mthf/multi-basics-3/ is one of the best ones, albeit quite expensive. I would use this (I still might) if it weren’t for the high choline (as I think the best multivitamin you can get is going to be important if it is the sole source). This brand does a better 6 a day one as well which I couldn’t find when I looked just now.

The problem we have however is that a lot about multivitamin absorption and use doesn’t seem to be very well known, so we are going mostly off common sense and there isn’t anything particularly solid to back any of it up :frowning: - I suspect absorption is going to be one of the make or break things about soylent but we still seem to be operating on half guesses :frowning:


#11

I agree, but it’s so specific to each individual I think it would be almost impossible to quantify unfortunately. If it is Rob’s goal to make this a worldwide-available food source that will likely be his biggest hurdle.


#12

I remember my brief stint on creatine supplements there was an absorption / digestive problem. The issue was that the creatine would be killed off in the stomach acid and never reach your intestines to be absorbed. So the two solutions at the time were to either take an abhorrent amount of the stuff, or swallow special horse pills that would only release in the intestines. The die hard’s used suppositories, but I wasn’t all about that.

Currently I am not grinding up my vitamins yet, I am just taking them in the morning. Although I do want to grind them up, but only for the purpose of spreading them out throughout the day rather than in one lump sum.
I am paranoid about the one lump sum because my urine is already neon yellow which leads me to believe that if my body doesn’t absorb the vitamins when I take them that I will urinate them out. I’m not sure how fast vitamins are processed through the body, but I don’t want to take 500 mg of Choline only to urinate 400 mg of it an hour later and then be at a deficit the rest of the day.


#13

Taking smaller dosage pills multiple times a day sounds a better solution.

I use multibionta as my multi-vitamin and it has a layer containing gut bacteria and designed to survive the whole “journey” and be released in the gut…

For those who take supplements in pills, when do you take them? I usually take mine after breakfast with some little snack. I once read that if you take them on an empty stomach, most of the pill will end up being flushed without much absorption.


#14

The only pills that I have are Calcium, Magnesium, Choline, and Iron and I take those in the middle of my first shake in the morning.


#15

I am risking being rather obvious, but a couple of points haven’t been mentioned here. First, “when do you take them” – I believe the general recommendation with multivitamins is that they should be taken with food, several hours separation from “any other medications” (because of potential interactions between some drugs and some vitamins).

Second, all of the worries about how to crush vitamin tablets and not have waste, sediment, etc. is very easily dealt with in most cases. People’s objections are generally to the large, solid “horse pills” that have become so common. Years ago I took Next Generation formula from Healthier You (Dr. Willix’ formulation) and you had to take nine of those damn horse pills daily. Now I just bought some El Cheapo Encounter brand +50 Silver one-a-day multivitamins (not top of the line, admittedly, but they were all I could afford), again a horse pill. In both these instances it was easy just to chew the pill slightly between the incisors (front teeth) avoiding the molars (back teeth or grinders), just enough to break them up, making them easily swallowed with some water, and no losses. Don’t use the molars because then the stuff gets stuck in the; using your front teeth to break them up a bit avoids any sticking problems. Simple! (Maybe it won’t work in every instance, and it’s no good with softgels, but it’s fine with most pressed supersize tablets.)


#16

I am lucky in that I don’t have a problem swallowing vast amounts of pills at once (there is a technique that makes it manageable ;))

Jeffrey, yeh with food (and water). Some vits are fat soluble, some are water soluble… so so long as you are taking with water and fat it should be no issue (probably).

It might be worth taking magnesium separately at night, simply because magnesium can help with sleep. When I am (finally) fully up and running with my soylent, I will be taking all tablet forms in the morning with the liquid part, except for magnesium with the final soylent of the day. (unless I go for one of the expensive multi’s, which I might well do, then I will be taking that periodically).

I think the two important questions for soylent itself are:

1)Are the vits / mins being absorbed as well as they would be if built into food?
2)Is a multivitamin pill sufficient (for those elements contained). Is it absorbed well enough?, and are the individual vits of the correct amount and correct form?.

  1. I would be highly surprised if there is a problem, but it is still possible. 2) Worries me slightly more. As we are for the most part abandoning food, we are trusting the multivit companies a lot, but also that the absorption (and forms used) wont be a factor.

Multivitamins aren’t quite as clear cut as some people make them out to be either… each vit can can be from multiple forms and these may be dealt with by the body in different ways. I spent a long while researching on the longecity forums (those chaps spend an even longer time researching and trying stuff out to improve lifespan) and it doesn’t seem to be a simple ‘100%’ does it, at least not for ‘optimal’ :wink: - a few multi’s come close to their (very high) standards, but most don’t.

This might all be moot with the actual final version of soylent (because they will be able to monitor and check the sources of the components, we are limited to half guessing with a multivit).


#17

Well, speak for yourself! Personally I feel it’s highly improbable that I should abandon food; soylent for me would be a convenience, a fallback option when I’m short on time, or feeling too lazy to cook, or in a really bad space psychologically. I’ll go a bit further and say that my SWAG is that long-term the number of people who actually abandon food will be a minuscule proportion of the total number of soylent users, and that those who are still using soylent after one year will also be a minority. People are very prone to fads and fancies, and these seldom endure for long periods of time; soylent will inevitably also be subject to this tendency of mass psychology. By the time all this will have worked itself through, soylent will have been around for awhile and – the official corporate version – will have been examined rather closely by a variety of researchers and interested parties.

However, you are right that we place too much trust, collectively, in vitamin manufacturers; I’m becoming increasingly aware of that. I was taking “B100” regularly for awhile; I know more now and it horrifies me that they actually sell B vitamin supplements with an arbitrary 100 mg (or mcg in the case of trace minerals) of each ingredient, without the least regard for RDA or toxicity levels; similarly there are a whack of vitamin A supplements containing 10,000 IU, which is right at the upper limit! Crazy! In addition to that, we need to consider that inevitably some proportion of soylent users will be people with psychogenic eating disorders, who cannot be expected to exercise good judgment.,

We also need to remember that those who compound their own soylent from their own formulae are, in a sense, bootlegging it and are on their own! No one is responsible for their errors except themselves. We would all do well to keep that firmly in mind as we engage in what is admittedly (even by Rob) an EXPERIMENT in futurological nutrition.


#18

Hehe, didn’t mean to imply that about food, I actually am not abandoning it myself, for those very reasons :wink: - my intended use is for cheap and easy meal replacement because I find cooking annoying as hell and often end up eating junk instead. Its just nice if I do this for a few days in a row i know everything is covered.

Re multivitamins, there was at one point a longecity created multivitamin. Everyone discussed and voted on the best components / dosages of everything and they got a manufacturer to make the custom product. I think there was an issue with their supplier however and are currently devising v2. http://www.longecity.org/forum/forum/365-vimmortal/ Interesting idea, a community devised supplement :slight_smile:


#19

That is interesting; as time goes by and proportionally more of the population is comfortable with wiki works, open source, and the like, I should think we’ll see a lot more such initiatives as the Longecity vitamin supplement you mention. Soylent itself could have been one, but instead only the funding was crowdsourced. Already it is possible to see reasonably well-defined sectors of opinion here that are not in agreement with Rob’s formula, but the big question remains whether any alternative products will actually emerge from this kind of Hegelian dialectic. Rob did it first, scooped the crowdsourcing option; it would probably be much more difficult for an alternative product to get funding. We’ll see! Over on the CR Society Facebook group, which is the most nutritionally knowledgeable group in my own experience, the ingredients in Rob’s formula evoke head-shakings and negative comments. Obviously soylent formula variations will continue to be a major bone of contention, possibly even more so once Rob’s product is in actual production and can be readily obtained and experienced by anyone. I think this is just Act I and the show has only just begun.


#20

I think I’m going to go with this and just get a mortar/pestle since they’re pretty useful anyways. Thank you.
On that note, does anyone happen to know if you can grind flaxseed this way? Like, to a degree that will be mixable.