"MassFuel" Weight gain DIY recipe (25c/20p/55f) - Looking for feedback!


#1

Hello DIY’ers! :smile: You may have seen me posting around the past few weeks looking for advice. Well, I’ve finally finished up my first recipe and I would love some feedback, advice, comments, concerns, criticisms, etc etc. (This recipe was never intended to be vegan or gluten free as I personally am not overly concerned with either.)

Recipe: NOD MassFuel 2500c ($9.74/d) http://diy.soylent.me/recipes/nod-massfuel-unflavored (“Lights” being my other identity, lol)

(My spreadsheet I adapted from another DIYer that shows ratios: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AoaQ149djT5jdENfcnJnMDZEaC1OSXpFVElZOUlaQlE&usp=sharing)

Overview: My goal was a high calorie, fat heavy macro to include only enough protein/carbs to cover my personal requirements (protein = 0.82g/lb body weight/ Carbs = 130g minimum for brain energy) with a neutral flavor for easy adaption. I wanted to use the best forms (taste and bioavailability) of supplements while keeping the cost below $10/day, which I was just able to do. And finally, I tried to pay very close attention to all of the micros and get all of the recommended amounts which I believe I have mostly done.

Note: I have not tried this yet! I’ve just completed the ingredients and servings; it is on order, though. For flavor I plan on adding Stevia and PB2 as a start, but will be experimenting with many of the flavor recommendations found in various threads. I hope the texture will be similar to Schmoylent once blended, as I’d prefer to make the night before and have a smoother shake. We shall see.

Ingredient Logic

  • Carb Source
  • Oat Flour - for smooth texture and neutral taste (masa considered as a secondary option)
  • Protein Source
  • Whey Concentrate - higher calories and allegedely better taste than isolate
  • Organic Rice Protein - I wanted multiple sources where possible for variety/texture
  • Fat Source
  • Olive Oil - overall seemed the most balanced choice (still debating adding coconut oil)
  • Heavy cream/powdered milk - for extra calories and creaminess; plan on experimenting with powdered cream soon
  • Multi-Vitamin
  • AOR Multi Basics 3 - highly recommended brand, and I liked the flexibility of 3 pills/serving
  • Supplements
  • I went with a variety of forms based on different recommendations on taste, effects, and bioavailabilty.

Mainly I’m hoping people could do a once over on the micros/supplement forms and let me know if anything jumps out as being a concern. I spent a lot of time researching everything, but I came in not knowing anything and could have very easily overlooked or misunderstood various things. Also, I’m confident on my numbers, but mistakes happen. Note that “Sulfur” numbers are pulled from the SAAs.

My Concerns

  • Niacin 120mg: Well above RDA, but my understanding is below 50mg/serving, no “flushing” should occur
  • Cholesterol 400mg - Higher than a recommended limit of 300mg, but I’m hoping not enough to be a concern
  • Potassium Gluconate 23g - This seems like a really high number, but I wanted the 4.7g/K a day and no other way to get it. (add a banana or two instead?)
  • Micro Ratios - My Zinc:Copper ratio is a little low and Calcium:Magnesium high. But hopefully close enough.
  • Fish Oil - I’m counting on 6ml of oil not affecting the taste for a day’s batch
  • Texture - I don’t know what to fully expect. I’m looking for smooth and thin.

All feedback is appreciated! This is going to be 80% of my food starting Jan 1 (hopefully).


#2

Be sure and try stevia before buying it in bulk. I thought I was going to like it and ended up not being able to consume anything flavored with it. I have found Sucralose preferable, personally.


#3

Thanks for the note! I believe stevia is included in the pre-made Schmoylent axcho sells and I’ve liked the flavor well enough, but I will try mine without it first!


#4

“Acceptable Macronutrient Distribution Range (AMDR) is the range of intake for a particular energy source that is associated with reduced risk of chronic disease while providing intakes of essential nutrients. If an individuals consumed in excess of the AMDR, there is a potential of increasing the risk of chronic diseases and insufficient intakes of essential nutrients”

The AMDR for Fat, for most Males, is 20 to 35 grams per day.

http://www.iom.edu/Global/News%20Announcements/~/media/C5CD2DD7840544979A549EC47E56A02B.ashx


#5

Yes, but my understanding is that those recommendations are “safe” distributions for your average diet, which soylent is not. Getting essential nutrients isn’t a concern as it’s a given!

The research I’ve done indicates it’s best to start with protein as it is obviously essential; science indicates any protein above between 0.64 - 0.82g/lb isn’t beneficial. This puts me protein at axp 20% macro.

Because I’m not going for a keto diet, I want easy glucose for my brain at a minimum of 130g/day from carbs (a safe number I’ve seen put forward multiple places). That puts me around 25% macro.

The last 55%? Assuming all other essentials are covered, calories for calorie, fats provide the most bang for your buck. I have not read anything to say excessive healthy fats are a concern. In fact, many popular diets are dependent upon it. And conveniently, high fat AND high calorie gives me some wriggle room for milk and cream, two things I wanted for taste and texture.

If anything in this post is wrong, someone please correct me! I’d much rather be corrected than base my recipe on faulty assumptions.


#6

You could try potassium citrate. More potassium per gram and the citrate metabolizes into bicarbonate in your blood. Bicarbonate acts as a buffering agent protecting your bones and preventing kidney stones.

http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/DRI//DRI_Water/186-268.pdf


#7

That is a good point, although the reason I went with potassium gluconate over citrate is due to reports of the citrate form affecting taste? I read gluconate was more flavor neutral so I went with it to keep my base theme going.

But I will look into that for sure! The gluconate bottle I purchased will only be enough for 20 days as is, so I could get some citrate to try as well.


#8

Note that it’s not just the insufficient level of nutrients that they are referring to. “Assuming” that they’re “healthy” fats begs the question (in the logical sense). I don’t know what concerns underwrite these sorts of recommendations… but there seems to be cause for (at least some) concern about the unspecified chronic diseases - that is, in the absence of evidence (not just assumptions) that they don’t pose an issue in this case.


#9

Naturally so! I cannot say that you are wrong as I am operating only with the credible sources I can find. All I can really say is that if a high fat diet leads to chronic diseases, there’s going to be a lot of people in trouble. :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes: Many (most?) keto/paleo diets are high in fats. That’s not to say that because of that it’s automatically healthy; my only point is to say a lot of focus and research has gone into fats beyond just those IOM distros. But I definitely appreciate you raising the concern. I’ll keep looking into it for sure. Like I said, I’d rather find out I’m wrong than have a bad recipe!


#10

I’ve never noticed a taste from the citrate


#11

That’s good to hear, then. It would definitely be more cost efficient. I’ll pick some up and try it out.


#12

High in percentage? (i mean compared to the carbs in them) or high in quantity? I am not too familiar with keto diets.


#13

Both, really. There are others who could answer more completely, but a typical keto diet would be less than 20 grams of carbs a day to achieve “ketosis” with the remaining calories coming from proteins and fats. Fats are used primarily due to the secondary benefit of higher satiety. (Brief overview of Keto)

But hey, any comments on the recipe? :wink:


#14

Um uh scratches head um since this a weight gain recipe shouldnt it be the reverse of a keto diet with low fat and high carbs? :-o


#15

Haha, fortunately no that’s not the case! Calories are (mostly) calories!

This will constitute one last little bump for this recipe as my ingredients should finish coming in tomorrow, One last plea for comments and criticism before I take the plunge!

Thanks for all the comments, everyone.


#16

You already mention it, but i would up your magnesium to a roughly equal level of calcium.

Most ideal ratios are calcium:phosphorus at least 1.3 (so a little bit more calcium or less phosphorus for your recipe)
Ratio of calcium:magnesium should be around 1.

This ratios are recommended for (primarily) optimal bone health.


#17

Thanks, yeah… the Calcium/Magnesium/Phosphorus ratio triangle has been giving me fits. The problem is all of the phosphorus from the milk/cream/protein/oats… I tried to limit it as much as possible, but without going a very different direction with ingredients, I’m not sure how to resolve it.

If I up the calcium for the phosphorus ratio, it will throw the calcium:magnesium even more off.

I’m hesitant to add more magnesium due to already being at 490mg and exceeding the RDA, although it only lists a “supplemental UL” of 350mg (I’m at 200mg supplemented).

I can’t drop the calcium for the magnesium because I need the calcium for the high levels of phosphorus! I know the phosphorus is the real problem, but I don’t know how to solve it without changing my carb source.

I’m hoping that I’ve played the percentages close enough to realistically have no related problems, but maybe I’m being optimistic…


#18

Just came across this from here:

However, as larger fractions of ingested food are used for energy (and a correspondingly smaller proportion for growth), the notion of a dietary Ca:P molar ratio has little meaning or value, particularly since, on a mixed diet, there is likely to be a relative surplus of phosphorus. Under such circumstances it would be inappropriate to conclude, simply on the basis of a departure from some theoretical Ca:P ratio, either that calcium intake should be elevated or, phosphorus intake reduced. In balance studies in human adults, Ca:P molar ratios ranging from 0.08:1 to 2.40:1 (a 30-fold range) had no effect on either calcium balance or calcium absorption (Heaney and Recker, 1982; Spencer et al., 1965, 1978a). Thus, for the reasons cited, there is little or no evidence for relating the two nutrients, one to the other, during most of human life.

and further (p182/183):

In addition, with respect to high phosphorus intakes, chronic administration of 2 g (65 mmol)/day phosphorus in men for at least 8 weeks produced no effect on calcium balance or calcium absorption relative to a diet containing only 806 mg (26 mmol) phosphorus (Spencer et al., 1965, 1978a)… For all these reasons, it is doubtful whether phosphorus intakes, within the range currently thought to be experienced by the U.S. population and/or associated with serum Pi values in the normal range, adversely affect bone health.

Overall, for a healthy adult, this guideline suggests that calcium intake is what truly matters, so long as phosphorus is kept within reasonable levels (0.8 - 2.4mg). My current recipe of 1.4mg is right on the median line and “should be fine.”

The report also goes on to say in the magnesium section that calcium:magnesium ratio is not a concern at recommended levels, but I will keep looking into this along with everything else. There’s got to be a reason why everyone is always talking about the importance of these ratios, right? Smoke and fire, etc.

So much to learn…


#19

They are over thinking things???

I would start by looking for solid studies that investigate these ratios and see what they are trying to determine and whether its applicable to your situation. You never know there could indeed be fire there.


#20

No dude. Whether we lose weight or gain depends also on the sources of calories in addition to the amount. Do more research about it before taking the plunge.