Phytic acid - manna of the gods?


#1

Looking at this structure, you immediately notice that in addition to having the potential of chelating multiple metal ions, the phytic acid contains whole 6 atoms of Phosphorus. Does this mean that instead of trying to find ingredients that have none, or tolerating the <400 mg dose like some helpless cave dwellers, we should be proud of our Phytic acid, and nuke it with excess supplementation of Phytase for some tasty Phosphorus?

((Guys, seriously, just leaving it there is not an option, it interferes with our proteases))


Phytic Acid, the continuing controversy
#2

@qm3ster I’m pretty sure you had some kind of a post/copy-paste error… it looks like a big chunk of your post just went missing mid-sentence. (fixed now)


#4

Not fixed yet… it might be easier just to write “left bracket”…


#5

I’m pretty sure that’s related to HTML tags, because the same thing happened in your second post. Not sure how Smaug managed to quote it, but if it’s the left bracket causing the issue, HTML is almost certainly why. (fixed now)


#6

You didn’t fix it the text is not even there. It’s not even in the source code.
Rewrite it and don’t use HTML characters such as <, >, etc. If you must, look up HTML encoding, and replace them with the proper HTML codes.

For instance > is &gt ; without the space and including the semi-colon.

Quotation may also give you trouble, these are encoded as &quot ;


#7

Thanks a lot for the help, I think I finally got it.
Please tell if fixed, and if so, delete comments about that.

(sorry it’s not much of a post, after all this wait)
(Interestingly enough, the missing text consistently returned to me in the editor, and appeared on page as soon as I added a space after the < sign)


#8

Looks good now. As to the actual content, looks like interesting potential for discussion. I don’t know a lot personally, but I think I’ve seen phytic acid come up once or twice in other discussions, so you’ll probably have some people in here soon with more opinions on the topic.


#9

@J_Jeffrey_Bragg seems to be the biggest proponent of eliminating phytic acid around here, I’m curious to read his response.

Is it possible to get a pure phytase supplement?


#10

It appears that fungi may contain significant amounts. This would be very interesting.


#11

One type of supplementation that looks promising though, is with Bifidobacterium pseudocatenulatum. This probiotic produces phytase and it appears to be able to withstand the journey through your stomach. It is this probiotic’s presence in the gut that appears to make some people able to deal well with whole grains. Doses and side effects aren’t well researched on this product either, but it seems like taking it in a general Bifidus supplement might be a more natural approach and maybe more effective approach. Bifidobacterium pseudocatenulatum isn’t in all Bifidus supplements, though, so read the supplement info carefully if you go this route.

Taken here http://paleohacks.com/questions/67404/eating-brown-rice-phytase-supplementation
However, since we are trying to protect out Proteases in the stomach from inhibition, it seems the intestinal domain of the bifidobacteria is too late in the food’s route.
However still, the post raises a valid question - will the phytases do their job inside the body, or does supplementing them mean we will have to keep fully-hydrated soylent out at room temperature for some time, as well as have a specific pH?


#12

The smarter route is probably to keep it at a certain pH and temperature for a decent length of time to allow the enzymes to catalyze the reaction.

I would think this is the easier, safer, and more reliable route.
Ingestion is likely the least reliable route.

Really interesting post by the way, I can’t believe I never considered this before.


#13

Pig information does indicate that availability of Phosphorus, not just Calcium and Iron, increases when feed is supplemented (treated?) with Phytases.


#14

A correction, if you don’t mind: I don’t advocate “eliminating” phytic acid, but I do suggest being aware of its existence and its potential for messing up a carefully calculated soylent formula. Phytic acid is like so many other nutrients: it has a good side and a bad side. A certain amount of it is beneficial and desirable; too much of it can be deleterious in several different ways. I would think its potential for disruption of digestive enzymes is a more serious issue than its mineral binding potential, actually.

I’m just pleased that this forum’s participants made the logical and intelligent decision to go into the phytic acid matter and try to make some sense of it – even if we can’t come up with all the answers. Having made the effort increases our awareness and understanding, which is good. I was somewhat distressed by Rob Rhinehart’s cavalier dismissal of the issue as being of no importance. IMO any issue that can invalidate closely-calculated quantification has importance in a highly-structured (and closely calculated) dietary regiment like soylent.


#15

Correct away! :smiley: Yeah as with everything, it’s a fine balancing act. Honestly, between this and finding enough suitable slow carbs, I’m seriously considering trying to go ketogenic. It’ll need a fairly large commitment on my part though, at least 2 weeks of 100% keto-Soylent to adjust and decide if it’s for me I reckon.

While we’re in the realm of slightly-off-topic, the title of this thread is redundant. Manna IS the food of the gods, so that’s like saying the “food of the gods” of the gods. /pedantry


#16

I think perhaps you have confused manna with ambrosia. Ambrosia, as I understand it, was the food of the gods; manna was the stuff that Yahweh caused to appear like dew in the desert for the nourishment of the children of Israel during their forty years of wandering therein.

But this, too, is just more pedantry of a different sort; fight pedantry with pedantry? OT. :slight_smile:


#17

Possibly. According to Wikipedia Manna was provided by god, so it still doesn’t really make sense.

Pedantry war go! I’ll stop derailing now…


#18

Sorry, I fail to see how any amount of Phytic acid making it even to your mouth in its actual form, and not broken down, can ever beneficial and not just somewhere on the scale of:
“needlessly risky - suboptimal - somewhat detrimental - bloody murderous”.


#19

It doesn’t matter if you fail to see it. Why don’t you Google it and try to apply reason to his statements? I have seen statements previously that phytic acid may have beneficial effects in moderation.

You’ve only been here for a day (That I’ve seen you) and you appear completely unwilling to back up any personal beliefs with hard facts and citations.

Your logic is not the same as a controlled study. If it is, there’s a great job opening at the FDA.


#20

Phytic acid has its upside. It fights cancer. Gut bacteria will adapt to generate more phytase in response to higher levels of dietary phytic acid. Helpful.

Virtually all phytic acid in grains is already bound to minerals in the grain. No need to worry about it chelating minerals from other foods. I got that from Chris Kresser, forgive my simplistic citation there. So you just need to cover for the minerals in the grains it is cheating you of, and what little calcium is precipitated from free binding sites.

I have a twofold strategy. Since the minerals it chelates are iron, zinc, calcium, and manganese, i pop a mineral supplement pre bedtime when phytic acid serum is low to nil, and get more than enough calcium throughout the day. I am a whey/milk protein guy.

Part two of the strategy is to ensure a healthy gut through glutamine and pre-probiotic supplementation (inulin and DDS-1 probiotics).

Part 3 for the advanced, I might add, is labcorp. Check every few months that you have adequate minerals, and up your supplement regimen if you don’t.


#21

I am sorry, but phytic acid does not fight cancer.