Probiotic Chocolate Rye Milkshake (Japan)


#1

Hello Everyone,

I’ve been drinking my Probiotic Chocolate Rye Milkshake for 2/3 meals per day for the last week, and I thought I’d share. I’m reluctant to call it soylent because it’s mostly food and so doesn’t follow the main goals of Soylent as I see it. But it does have at least 100% of all the required vitamins, minerals, amino acids, and calories needed for 1 day. I’m on a 1800 calorie per day diet with a 35-25-40 carb-protein-fat ratio. It’s probiotic, I set an upper limit of 10g of fructose per day and pushed pretty hard for 40g as a minimum of fiber (didn’t quite make it).

I’m not a regular to these forums, but I didn’t see anyone with anything quite like what I’ve got, so I figured I’d share my recipe in case it’s helpful to anyone and to see if anyone had any advice. This is inspired by the Hackerschool Soylent recipe (cookingfor20.com/2013/06/18/hacker-school-soylent-recipe/), and is designed around what is readily available from Amazon in Japan. It is rather expensive, actually, at around ¥750/day, but it’s cheaper than my old cafeteria food diet and certainly worth more nutritionally. (I think this price range is inevitable, being in Japan, and the only room I can find to make it any cheaper would be to replace the Lecithin, which I may try when my Lecithin runs out)

As I understand it, the key things I’m doing differently seem to be:

  • Using Milk
  • Mixing Rye in with the Oat flour to neutralise the Phytic acid (Rye is very high in Phytase)
    • Replacing the Oat flour outright might be cool to try, but I end up with Folate, Calcium and Magnesium issues
  • Using an Isomalto oligosaccharide sugar.
    • It is indigestible, so behaves like a fiber until it gets to your gut where it feeds all your probiotic tenants
    • I estimate the fiber content as the portion of the serving mass that doesn’t make it into the calorie count.
  • Adding pellets of Lactobacillus Bifidus (Probiotics)
    • Good combination with the IMO

I have to process the oats into oat flour myself, since oat flour isn’t available ANYwhere over here. I usually make a big batch of the powder mix, then mix together 2/3 of the recipe at a time, once per day; unless my wife wants it for breakfast, in which case I make the whole thing. My food processor has a small chamber for milling, which I use to crush up the supplements, and a medium chamber which I use to make the oat flour. This all takes less than 30 minutes per day.

I eat the breakfast right away, so I get one meal with the health benefits of the phytic acid; then I let the lunch soak all morning, so I get one meal with the phytic acid neutralised for higher nutrient absorption. it can get pretty thick with just the milk, especially letting it soak, so you need to add water until it’s a consistency you like. My wife likes to add a banana to it as well. It’s quite tasty, so much so that she has trouble believing it’s actually healthy.

Even though I did all of the measurements and pricing based on full meal replacement, I won’t actually be able to try this as a complete long term substitute to food until my wife decides to stop cooking me dinner. So don’t anticipate any anecdotal “this is how I feel after X weeks on a 100% Probiotic Chocolate Rye Milkshake Diet” evidence ^_^. Although, interestingly enough, she apparently feels more pressure now to cook me healthy food, since her meal is the only place where I could fall short of perfect balanced nutrition.

Some notes on the spreadsheet format:

  • The total required mass is the total of just the powders to make it easy to mix them beforehand in bulk.
  • The bottom of the spreadsheet (with no cell borders) has all the information on each of the ingredients on a “per-serving” basis, and those are used to calculate the total in the recipe itself on the top.
  • I didn’t bother looking up the amino acid breakdown for anything other than the soy protein since it knocks all of the requirements out of the park.
  • Sulfur information was hard to come by but I assume there are a few milligrams here and there outside of the supplement
  • I assume a 1:1.1 sodium:chloride ratio and staying below 2g sodium is more important to me than getting the full 100% chloride.

I only included a link to my wishlist so that anyone else in Japan could easily find the best priced options on these. That was most of the work! It takes a pretty hefty initial investment of about ¥35,000 to start it all off, but only ¥750/day from that point on is pretty nice… if you end up liking it. If not… you’ve got a lot of raw cooking materials for other projects. It also requires a blender and a scale, but I assume anyone interested in any of this would already have that.

Let me know if you have any questions, comments, or advice. Thank you for your attention! :slight_smile:


#2

Thanks for posting your recipe, @Sintax . It looks remarkably similar to what I’ve been doing. I use buckwheat usually rather than rye to supply the desired phytase. You should give the buckwheat a try, you might find it gives you a nicer flavour than you get with rye. I’m in your wife’s camp with the banana!

If it meets that standard, then it’s soylent, for my money. Soylent is basically a form of balanced nutrition, something you eat – it’s not some set of goals or ideals. You can’t eat an ideal. And “food” by definition is what you eat in order to derive nutrition, physical sustenance – so saying that it’s not soylent because it’s mostly food makes not much sense to me. (As a popular author of the 1980s and 1990s – Robert Fowles – wrote: “Which are you drinking, the water or the wave?”)

I’m glad this is working out for you. I intend to give your recipe some careful study. And yes, the HackerSchool recipe is quite a useful resource, isn’t it!


#3

Yeah, I didn’t really even think of doing anything like this until I saw that recipe. It’s pretty cool. From the link I gave, are you able to download the file for offline editing with the cell cross-referencing in-tact? This was designed for easy tweaking of each ingredient, so if you can’t tweak it let me know and I’ll get you an xml file.

Thank you for the recommendation, the rye certainly does have a heavy taste that I imagine getting old after a while. I just did a search for buckwheat in Japan, and it turns out that buckwheat is what they use for soba - a Japanese noodle that I happen to be allergic to. So it’s available for cheap, but it seems like this allergy I have may just be a buckwheat allergy! I’ll have to get ahold of a small amount of buckwheat to snort to confirm :slight_smile:

I agree with your thoughts on physical sustenance, but semantically, I still don’t think of this as “soylent” per se. Nutritional balance was a thing before soylent was a word, and I guess what I mean by not following “the main goals of soylent” is that there are some inherent inefficiencies and drawbacks to this kind of recipe. It isn’t appropriate for people with lactose intolerance, it requires animal husbandry in the ingredient manufacture, it probably isn’t gluten free, and it wouldn’t be surprising if there were some other allergen in there I’m not aware of. The cost is way over target, and the difficulty in balancing with these kinds of ingredients lead to 2000%+ of DRIs for some vitamins.

All those concerns (except my soba allergy, perhaps) are just irrelevant hassles for me personally. But on a large scale they are important and practical problems that I understand Soylent as a brandname is out to tackle.

Plus, soylent is a new thing that few people know about. If I want to explain to someone at work what this is, I just tell them what it is, and they get a pretty accurate idea of what it tastes like: a perfectly nutritionally balanced chocolate-rye-milkshake :slight_smile:


#4

That’s hard luck – your soba allergy. It does make one wonder, where all this proliferation of food allergies is coming from…

That’s as may be; at the moment they are a long way from tackling very much. They are obliged by that over-the-top crowdfunding success to focus all their efforts on shipping some product to six thousand people who committed to this thing with preorders. So far they’ve said first one thing and then another as the realities of commercial production intrude upon the world of idealistic enthusiasm. People who preordered are understandably getting a bit restive; early-adopter enthusiasm can evaporate as quickly as it condensed. First they have to tackle THE MARKET, before they can realistically think about tackling world hunger, inefficiencies of food production and the rest of the goals, ideals, important problems, etc.

Let’s see how the market treats them – and how they treat the market. If those two interactions jibe, then soylent might take off. Right now it’s way too early to tell.


#5

From what I’ve read allergies are caused by early or late exposure to common proteins.

A study was conducted where food allergies were completely removed by sensitization, i.e. giving them larger and larger amounts of the allergic substance until the allergy went away.


#6

@J_Jeffrey_Bragg said:
So far they’ve said one thing and then another… People who preordered are understandably getting a bit restive.

Interesting. I don’t know any of the specifics, but it would be unfortunate if they lost support of the base that got them started. I’m waiting until a version 1.0 comes out before I start getting invested (financially or emotionally). But it’s certainly exciting that someone has decided to take up the challenge.

It would still be a good situation for us if they could never manage to take off past a niche market, though, since we’d be the niche.


#7

There are lots of problems with mineral balance in this recipe. It’s currently being revised based on the data in this thread.