Problems with whey


#1

you claim soylent is free of allergens - but milk products cause about as many allergic reactions as soy, and no, I’m not talking about lactose.

you also claim that soylent is vegetarian. but whey IS NOT VEGETARIAN. An enzyme from slaughtered animals is used to make whey.

Milk products generally are NOT healthy. They contain too much phosphate and therefore actually have a negative effect on our body’s calcium storage.

Also milk products have been linked to cancer, especially prostate cancer.

So eating a lot of milk protein is NOT a good idea.

Plant based proteins are actually cheaper and when mixed have a higher efficiency. Some grains for instance have all essential amino acids.


#2

When you list off several problems with the idea but do not provide any hard research for it, most people will generally just write you off as a complainer. Just an FYI :wink:

This discussion board is mainly about how to make Soylent better. Thus you might actually be helping … if you provided hard facts.


#3

WOW. I can’t believe it. So I’m not providing hard facts? I know that most people aren’t familiar with the research done in recent years on animal protein / milk products, but besides those I named several facts, which should be well known to anyone in the food industry.

Plus I DID say, how you could MAKE SOYLENT BETTER: by using a mix of plant based proteins.

Sorry Dude that I don’t have any time to spend on pubmed , since I busy enough with my own research …
the guys developing the product should be the ones doing the research.
A good source to start with on my milk products as a protein source are a bad idea, is the physicians commitee for responsible medicine (http://www.pcrm.org/)
Also, when it comes to food efficiency (esp. world hunger and climate protection), plant based diets are a much better choice, sind keeping and feeding cows takes a lot of grain and creates many green house gases (do you need a quote for this too? irony off). Because of this (and dietary reasons) the U.S. Department of Agriculture has recommended a primarily plant based diet for a few years now.
(one link I found is this: http://www.ars.usda.gov/News/docs.htm?docid=9246)

Oh and by the way, YES I’m complaining, since I’m shocked anyone would still recommend eating a substance where the main protein source is whey as a main food source, especially after the claims made about what soylent is meant to provide.
Just because I’m complaining doesn’t mean my points aren’t valid. Anyways, I just felt obliged to tell you that whey is not the whey to go.


#4

Troll alert! But I think that is obvious :stuck_out_tongue: Do not feed! (just a recommendation).

The whey protein I have right now is quoted with the following:
"(our) whey protein is manufactured using a vegetarian rennet enzyme"

However if the troll, or rather person exhibiting troll like behaviour were to give a good link to plant proteins cheaper than whey proteins that will fully replace what is currently being used that would be swell.


#5

You’re forgetting a pretty fundamental part of what makes us tick as humans, laddie. If you want anyone to listen to you, you kind of don’t want to start by taking an attitude. :wink:

Agreed with @gernreich - if we can locate a source of protein that is plant based and has an economical enough efficiency, then that’d be great.

Also, @Beret_Roots, keep in mind that while many are thinking about the overall benefits Soylent can provide in terms of addressing world hunger and logistics, a majority that are building Soylent on their own are doing so for personal reasons - higher levels of convenience, lower cost, medical reasons, etc. Just because your logic is necessarily sound does not mean that everyone must subscribe to it. Being shocked over the fact that people might be willing to go against your logic, assumes that everyone should, and that’s usually problematic, historically speaking.

Either way, thank you for at the very least providing links to some of your sources. The last person on here who copped an attitude had his last post removed by mods because he signed off with ‘you’re all idiots go leanr how to cook’. lol.


#6

Walking outside of the house has been linked to death by cars crashing into you, therefore walking is not healthy.


#7

If you are going to make an argument, post sources. If you cant be bothered, don’t make the argument. Usually people who say ‘I could post evidence, but I don’t have time’ etc, actually don’t have any evidence and end up posting something from a random website… like, oh, say pcrm.org.

Hint, appeals to authority in dietary science wont cut it. (especially if the authority is an obviously biased vegan group). The only thing that means anything in dietary science are good scientific studies (which are surprisingly rare), because so many people / groups have agendas and money on the line.

It is a shame if your arguments are actually correct (they might well be for all I know), because by not bothering to post any evidence at all you just make people immediately dismiss your arguments. If I were working for the ‘milk council’ (or whatever pro milk group exists, I am sure there is one) and wanted to discredit vegans, I would post exactly the same kinds of things you just posted. There is no better way to discredit your cause than aggressively claiming science backs you up, and then failing to link to any of the science.


#8

Your claim of food efficiency is a bit spurious. If we had an imaginary country with no imports, and we wanted to maximize each calorie, a vegetarian diet might be ideal depending on the country. For example, Australia had huge amounts of grassland so grass-fed cattle make sense, and places like Pakistan have goats that can live off of land that wouldn’t support humans through vegetable farming. For some place like England, it would probably make more sense to restrict meat to optimize calorie production though.

We don’t live in that world though. In the first world, people like cheese. It’s just the way it is. And cheese produces whey protein as a by-product. That means we have access to a cheap, plentiful source of protein that otherwise is poured down the drain (literally, in the country I live in, they pour it down the drain because there aren’t any whey processing facilities). How is that optimal again?

BTW, I’m a vegetarian for 23 years.


#9

Also, this is a pretty stupid statement. Whey protein’s bio-availability is so high it’s literally off the charts. The only thing that comes close is egg whites. Soy is up there with eggs, but there’s a lot of conflicting research on how much soy is good for you. So, soy aside, black beans and brown rice are probably the closest you can come. They, using the latest standards, have about 76% bio-availability and form a complete protein (and taste amazing with hot sauce, but I digress). But they have less Leucine than you’ll get from a comparable amount of whey protein, which is a crucial amino acid.

No grains have all the amino acids. Quinoa does, but it’s a seed, not a grain.

Please, do some research that isn’t on PETA. I implore you.


#10

The funny thing about things being considered vegetarian/vegan is…a lot of it is highly subjective. I don’t necessarily know if an enzyme from slaughtered animals is used and honestly, I don’t care very much. My point is, some vegans won’t eat figs because wasps pollinate them and there’s a possibility the wasps died while doing so. And then there are vegans who will eat human placenta because “it’s freely given.” There is no hard rule for what makes something truly vegetarian, as odd as that may sound.


#11

I’ve seen a lot of people suggesting Quinoa as a protein. While Quinoa does contain all of the essential AA, it is low in Methionine and Phenylalanine, at least from my calculations.
When I was making protein pancakes I decided to use Quinoa, Teff and Spelt to create a complete / semi-balanced protein.
I did not find different sources for my info, as it was a pain for me to find these sources:
http://skipthepie.org/cereal-grains-and-pasta/spelt-cooked/compared-to/quinoa-cooked/
(This one I think is where I pulled the AA profile of Quinoa, sorry I did not redo the math that I did before)


I probably could have double checked this source, but since I didn’t double check the last one I called it good.

Here was my final info that I came up with. The AA that are bold are the ones that are lacking:
Complete Protein (Per 1 gram of protein)
Tryptophan 7 mg
Threonine 27 mg
Isoleucine 25 mg
Leucine 55 mg
Lysine 51 mg
Mehionine 25 mg
Cystine 25 mg
Phenylalanine 47 mg
Tyrosine 47 mg
Valine 32 mg
Histidine 18 mg

Teff
Tryptophan 10.42 mg
Threonine 38.28 mg
Isoleucine 37.62 mg
Leucine 80.19 mg
Lysine 28.24 mg

Methionine 32.14 mg
Cystine 17.7 mg

Phenylalanine 52.41 mg
Tyrosine 34.39 mg

Valine 51.51 mg
Histidine 22.61 mg

Quinoa
Histidine 28.86 mg
Isoleucine 35.68 mg
Leucine 59.31 mg
Lysine 54.31 mg
Methionine 21.81 mg

Phenylalanine 42.05 mg

Threonine 29.77 mg
Tryptophan 11.82 mg
Valine 42.04 mg

Spelt
Histidine
Isoleucine 42.62 mg
Leucine 101.91 mg
Lysine 25.71 mg

Methionine 28.7 mg
Phenylalanine 72.24 mg
Threonine 28.25 mg
Tryptophan 19.68 mg
Valine 58.88 mg

I did this a while ago so my numbers might be a little off. So I would double check them before making any decisions.


#12

I personally quite enjoy eating slaughtered animals. I find them quite tasty.


#13

Sorry, I didn’t mean to suggest it as a sole source of protein in soylent. For my protein supplementation, it’s whey all the way. Quinoa doesn’t have a good amino acid profile for humans, and it would be better mixed with other proteins. Even the Andean subsistence farmers don’t rely on it as their sole source of protein.


#14

Sorry Tai, I didn’t mean to suggest that you were using it as a sole source and recommending it to others. I just wanted to put some info out there, as I have seen a bunch of people talking about Quinoa as their protein. I think that I saw a DIY recipe that only had quinoa for protein.


#15

Slaughterable animals take up much larger crop fields for their soy meal than if we consumed the plant nutrients directly. So no matter how awesome killing cows is, growing them is not very responsible. That said, I too fear Phosphorus, and keep my intake at 0.7 g, with the accompanying Calcium at 1.75-1.80g

Soy milk is much lower in Phosphorus , scientist suggest it is because the Soy and it’s children don’t have such developed bones as a cow does.