Recipe for review


#1

Hi everyone

Well, this is my first post here; I’ve been perusing the forums and other parts of the site for a few days now after being put onto Soylent by my brother. I absolutely love the idea and am looking forward to being able to live by Soylent alone… I find food to be a laborious chore each day.

At any rate, I’ve picked up a completed recipe and modified it a bit to something close to my current dietary requirements (link here) and need to see if I’ve missed out on anything major here. Any constructive criticism is more than welcome!

One major concern I have (though I’m not sure if it’s warranted) is the low level of phosphorus. Can anyone provide me with something I can use to bump it up pretty well just by itself? I would like to avoid playing around with too much of the micro to get it all kosher if possible.

Thank you for your time reading this, and I look forward to some quality discussion on this, and in the future!


#2

Nice to see another kosher soylent maker!
And here I thought I was the only one on the forums…

There are much cheaper sources for WPI. $11 a day seems a bit high overall. Is there a reason you’re looking to pound that much protein into your shakes?

Suggestion: if you’re not averse to it, soy flour is cheap and high in protein and fiber. It might help eliminate some redundancies and reduce costs.
General consensus is that MSM isn’t needed. You get sulfur from your amino acids.
Lecithin is a good but expensive source of choline, which you can by in bulk powder form cheaply.

If you’re using ground flaxseed instead of flaxseed oil, it’ll help up your phosphorus.
Get a different source of starches/carbs. I use oat flour. in bulk it costs $0.22 a day, 55 if i use the anount you’re using. AND it’s a good source of phosphorus.

But overall, the recipe hits the right notes.


#3

Thank you very much for the response @isaackotlicky!
I have a fair bit of leg work to do in working out cheaper alternatives, I think… I have been wondering about using soy or another source of protein this afternoon for economy’s sake.
The protein content in there is pretty high, which’ll push up the cost I understand. It’s mainly to replicate my current nutritional intake which is built around a fair bit of gym work each week. I wouldn’t say that I’m bodybuilding, but I do a fair bit of weights and other resistance training in conjunction with HIIT and Krav Maga (recently taken it up). I’ve just settled at 40:40:20 because it seems to cover all bases as closely as possible from what I’ve read about macro requirements, and the results are showing well enough so far. I might look at changing that ratio up a bit in future, but for now it’ll stick I think.

Are you able to provide links for the WPI sources, choline, and oat flour that you mentioned please? I’d like to look at that. I did look at fine powdered oats on Bulk Nutrients, but didn’t like the look of it for the reason it’s so highly processed and much higher GI from there (maybe I just need to find another source), but also… the WMS seems to be nearly a pure carb source, whereas there’s a lot more going on in the oats that throws out some of the other values. I chose it for simplicity’s sake, I suppose and need to just dig a bit deeper I think.

At this stage, I’m hoping to have fine-tuned it and make a big order next week and maybe make my first batch the week following once it all has arrived. I daresay the first batch or two will be a bit haphazard, but it’ll all come good with a bit of experimenting I’m sure.

Thank you for the critique; you’ve given me a bit to think about and I’ll get back to you when I make a few amendments.


#4

Definatly try a cheaper Whey Isolate. I used to recommend NOW but have discovered Hard Rhino WPI http://www.hardrhino.com/products/whey-protein-isolate-90-powder-unflavored.html For the same size you have listed would have only been $104.99 (Free shipping over $99)
Your WPI may also contain nutrients that it doesnt list (Like sulfur). Maybe pull the ingredient from another recipe like This one which uses NOW Whey Isolate http://diy.soylent.me/recipes/people-chow-301-tortilla-perfection
or the variant that uses the Hard Rhino Isolate http://diy.soylent.me/recipes/people-chow-301-tortilla-perfection-with-olive-oil

Look for another carb source. I like a mix of oat and Masa. Masa has a high following as some people had gas and bloating with oat (which goes away after you adjust). Gas was also a big problem when MSM was used as sulfur (Sulfur plus gas and bloating, well…)
MSM is no longer need as there are amino acids in the protein which contain sufficient amounts of sulfur.
Unenriched Masa swapped in for Waxy Maize starch fixes almost everything. You would then be able to cut back on fiber sources, protein and fat and then up the Masa to get your carbs.

EDIT We posted at exactly the same time so you probably just missed it.


#5

Hi there @vwbugg, thank you for the information!

I think that the difference in cost for the WPI is going to come down to the American vs. Australian dollars and markets. I can’t find any cheaper available here than what I’ve got so far (if anyone can, please do let me know!)

I’ll have to make up a second recipe I think for subbing stuff in and out to work out what might work best. I’ll give the masa a shot. What sort of ratio do you use oats:masa? Have you had any problems with the grittiness that some people have described, using masa?


#6

Oh i missed that you were in Australia, sorry mate.
I have had more than my fair share of problems with Masa being gritty, usually solved by using a different brand. Here are some other tips i posted on another thread here http://discourse.soylent.me/t/how-to-alleviate-grittiness-from-diy-soylent/11422/20?u=vwbugg All masa is just a bit different in texture from brand to brand and even bag to bag in the same brand. Mixing with oat tends to help with emulsification. I tend to fluctuate around half and half oat/masa, but only because i personally am not a huge fan of masas flavor. I would start with masa as the primary to see how gritty yours is and experiment with your proportions. How easy is it to find masa in Australia? Here every single Grocery store has it sometimes 2 or 3 brands and it is cheap.
Here is my recipe which is similar to the others i linked to because they all have the same base. http://diy.soylent.me/users/vwbugg


#7

I’ll have a look at that with the Masa when I make up the first batch. I don’t mind grittiness or thickness normally with my shakes, so it shouldn’t pose too much of an issue to me personally (I hope).
I haven’t looked around in stores yet for Masa, but the best deals are always found online anyway, usually imported, here.
I pinched a couple things from your recipe, thanks :wink:
Just juggling a few things at the moment… I found that as soon as I added the oat flour, Phosphorous went through the roof and I’ve just managed to bring it under the max. It was a bit of a struggle for the amount of protein that’s in it… but I think I’ve just about got it down now ([link here][1])
How’s that shaping up? A few minor alterations to the cal value too, but it all seems to line up.
I’m thinking too, the masa is a slow-digesting carb isn’t it? How does it compare to others in this regard, does anyone know? The lower overall GI, the better :wink:

EDIT: Green across the board, win. Let’s ignore those silly omega-6s… Ready to go now, I think?
[1]: http://diy.soylent.me/recipes/copy-of-people-chow-301-tortilla-perfection-with-olive-oil-5?nutrientProfile=531bc50da483390200de2d33


#8

Looks good overall.
I’m using the 15 lb bucket of nutrabio WPI, but they’re currently sold out on the website. It’s the cheapest I could find anywhere that was certified kosher. That converts to ~6.78 kg, making it nearly as cheap as hard rhino (and it was even cheaper when I got it on sale).

Part of the reason I like using oats is because they aren’t “just” a carb source. It makes the recipe more efficient overall if I can reduce and combine ingredients. I think my current soylent has 8 ingredients plus a single multi, but I’ve thrown in a couple more like baking powder for texture (I like to cook/bake mine) and flavor profile (a couple drops of vanilla and lemon juice).

Re: the omegas, canola oil is pretty high in omega 6 if you’re looking to complete your recipe. I know a lot of people on the forums mix canola and olive oil for their soylent.

Personally, I’m working with a lower carb, higher fat ratio. But then again, I don’t hit the gym as much as you. :smile: I prefer doing my HIIT workout on my livingroom floor.


#9

I do rushfit on my living room floor almost everyday. Once this cold weathers done I will be back out in my gym everyday.


#10

O_o You and I have very different looking living rooms…


#11

Thats a section of my garage, lol.


#12

I wouldnt worry about the omega 6 too much i think a 10 to 1 omeaga 6 to omega 3 is too much anyway. After researching i got the feeling it should be as close to 1/1 as realistically possible.

Keep in mind the 1/2 a vitamin K pill’s purpose is to switch off between the two different Ks with one whole pill one day and one whole pill the next. If you choose to only use one kind of K be sure to adjust it to 1 whole pill.

The masa i think you should copy from the USDA Database (Use unenriched masa, unless by some weird chance you get enriched masa over there.) as i am not 100% sure Max (the original creator of this paticular version of the masa ingredient) has been 100 % accurate and may have used some numbers from an enriched version and some from an unenriched version. Here is my comparison post about this. With full disclosure i purposly leave out Niacin in my Masa on my main recipe because the GNC uses a Niacinamide/Niacin combo; Niacinamide does not cause flushing. Leaving the small amount out of the masa simply makes the graph all green because you dont need to worry about that little bit.

I compared masa amounts. all were put at 345 mg. http://diy.soylent.me/users/vw
Things that jump out at me:
Iron is consistent with enriched at 24.84 mg
Vitamin A for peoplechow masa is 3450(!) USDA:17
Thiamin is consistent with enriched at 4.8 mg but
Riboflavin is consistent with unenriched
Niacin is non existent (To compansate for Nicacinamide in GNC which has no flushing effect)
Folate is consistent with unenriched at 100 mg
Panthtothenic acid is over 3x USDAs amounts at 2.4 vs USDA at only 0.66
All others were the same or very close.
So two are consistent with enriched masa and two are consistent with unenriched masa and two are so high they might be wrong?


#13

All awesome information… Thank you guys!

@isaackotlicky I was thinking about using vanillin for flavour if that is an issue, not sure about texture yet but I’ll see that when I try the first batch and be able to work on it then too.
Do you know if nutrabio ship internationally, too? I’ve managed to get everything from Amazon sources except the oil and salt which I can easily buy from Coles/Woolworths locally, which is convenient. But if there’s a big price difference I will definitely consider the other options over convenience when ordering.

@Predator That’s a mighty fine looking garage :wink:

@vwbugg The omega 6 isn’t worrying me too greatly now, I think there’s ample and from what everyone here has said at least, it seems that they agree with you.
I’ve adjusted the pill to be a whole pill now, thank you.
That’s a nifty little trick you have there for your niacin lol… Are you suggesting that I trade out my source for the masa itself or just the information regarding it, to see how it lines up with the rest of the recipe?
I’ll have a look at the unenriched masa you linked, thanks very much!


#14

Double post!

The change in the masa nutrition table doesn’t make any huge difference at all, with the except of Vit A being so slightly under 100% now. I might just keep the old masa harina for green’s sake, and if it poses any issues down the track with health tests I’ll adjust accordingly.


#15

Here’s the link. Looks like you should be good.

[quote]
International Shipping Rates:

Shipping charges for international orders are calculated based on the weight of the order and your country. We charge you the actual UPS and USPS cost and do not markup these rates or charge any additional handling fees.[/quote]

Ahh, Woolworths. Doesn’t exist anymore stateside, I believe.


#16

That’s brilliant, I’ll look at incorporating it, thanks.

Probably a good thing about Woolworths… leave some room for something better, hopefully haha


#17

Well then…

Here’s MY gym:

Also: living room


#18

Alright everyone…
This is my final revision of the recipe (link here)! I need someone to give it a thorough look-over if anyone would care to give the time to it =) It would be much appreciated!

I’ve had to make a few changes to it for the sake of finding Australian sources, or ones which do in fact ship here (really big pain in the arse). I’m still struggling to find the GNC Powder here, or a suitable analogue… The tablet form seems to have a different nutrient breakdown unfortunately.

If there are any mistakes at all in my balancing, please let me know.
Thank you!


#19

Found this on the GNC Australia site FAQ’s
GNC site. Will I be able to get it in Australia?

GNC Australia aims to sell as much of the GNC International
range as possible, however there are regulatory reasons why some
products may not be available here.
The laws which regulate the sale of supplements in Australia are very
different to the United States. These are laws which regulate things
such as: what ingredients are allowed in Australia and in what dose;
whether the product is a powder or pill; how is it packaged and what is
written on the lable.
For this reason there are GNC products which are sold in the United
States and other places around the world, but which will not be approved
for sale in Australia. In some cases we will be able to make a small
modification to the product formula or the packaging and meet the
Australian requirements, but in many cases this will not be possible.


#20

According to this

You could import the GNC as long as it doesnt contain a banned substance from this list.

Your laws are very interesting. What about ebay? or the US Amazon.com website?
The US amazon ships to Australia, have you checked if they will ship the Mega Men Sport Powder?