Another source you might enjoy talking about fat as probable cause for extra calories and obesity in America.
Ah yes… Some guy on the internet named Kevin disputes the science… In related news more people now believe the earth is flat because they saw a video on YouTube…
There are other studies that show less of a difference between low carb and low fat diets…
I would like to try Keto at some point but it sounds like a hassle.
I found the following account interesting even though I’m not diabetic. Namely how trying to stay in an ultra low carb or ultra low fat diet is fairly difficult… interesting how her blood sugar shot up with a bit of saturated fat while on the low fat diet as compared to her normal moderately low carb diet. Similarly I’ve heard a bit too much carbs can throw you out of ketosis for a few days(?) then you have to claw your way back in (Keto fog?)
Seems to me it’s the blood sugar spikes that cause the insulin response which creates the body fat (and insulin insensitivity in extreme cases).
The enemy would seem to be some combination of simple carbs and saturated fats… (as well as calorie imbalance… obviously) which seems to typify the modern American diet.
Soylent being fairly high in unsaturated fat and moderately complex carbs seems about right. Maybe more fiber would be good?
Not sure what the optimal level of carbs is… aside from high heart rate activities (like running a 5k) it seems to me the fewer the better.
He tends to back his data with scientific studies. That doesn’t make it true, since the data needs to be analysed accordingly and there is a lot of discussion as seen in t his thread in both end. Just put it there for people who might be interested.
i did not take any stands in either side.
More fiber would definitely be good.
As for soylent being moderately complex carbs… You have maltodextrin, complex carb which behaves like sugar; and you have isomaltulose a sugar that behaves like complex carb in term of absorption. Not sure if I would define it like that.
This medium post is in agreement with everything I have seen from experts who have reviewed Taubes’ claim. It makes no sense to say that low-fat dietary guidelines caused obesity, because the data is clear that people did not in fact lower their fat intake as a consequence of those guidelines.
Thanks for posting the link to the 23 studies.
These do not actually compare low carb to low fat, despite the headlines. If you drill into the studies, you’ll see that the “low fat” diets in these studies are 30% calories from fat. No one would really consider that low fat – it’s “moderate fat” at best. The studies that actually look at people with “whole food, plant-based, no added oil” diets, which average 10% calories from fat, show unequivocal benefits.
That said, even the results of these studies you linked to, which compare high-fat-very-low-carb to a moderate diet demonstrate results that you should find alarming. The studies you linked to with a longer timeframe showed no statistical difference in weight loss between the two groups, but the high-fat-very-low-carb groups had higher total cholesterol and higher LDL cholesterol, which is perhaps the biggest risk factor in heart disease. This is precisely why doctors advise against high-fat diet in the long-term.
Bringing this back to Soylent, if you are a believer in the benefits of the high-fat-very-low-carb approach and the rise in LDL cholesterol and total cholesterol doesn’t concern you, these studies looked at 60% fat along with less than 4% calories from carbs. Can you find a single study advocating 47% calories from fat and 33% calories from carbs? I can’t: those who advocate for high fat believe it is only safe if you heavily restrict carbs. High fat plus moderate carbs seems to be right in the sweet spot of awfulness that no dietician would recommend.
I’ve lost 15 pounds and 20pts of LDL in the last few years since I’ve been on mostly Soylent… I used to add extra oil to Soylent (and Schmoylent) to up the fat. I didn’t quit the practice for health reasons but rather just because it was a hassle. Like I said before, I would like to try Keto at some point just to experience it. Likely from a soylent type powder/oil combo.
On the most part though, I’d think a <10% carbs or <10% fat diet would be just too much of a pain in the ass.
Better just to minimize the simple carbs/sugars and saturated fats…
If you believe a <10% fat diet is right for you, Go for it! But please leave my Soylent alone. It’s working great for me as is.
As I said, I’m not really expecting Soylent to suddenly cater to the extremes and go either <10% carbs or <10% fat. But its current ratio doesn’t make any sense, and fat level is far above all recommendations (except for those who advocate extreme carb restriction, and Soylent shouldn’t be catering to those sorts of extremes).
At least we now have a lot of new posts on this old subject!
Lol. I guess you can find anything on the internet. Carbs are bad! Fat is bad! The earth is round!
This is kinda like religion here (or politics)… not changing any minds, just making lots of noise. Sigh.
It sounds like, as usual, the answer isn’t to eliminate either fats or carbs, or reduce them to incredibly low amounts – just eat both of them in moderation.
The latest nail in the high-fat coffin:
It appears that a high-fat diet promotes hazardous gut bacteria. This is getting a lot of attention in the medical community because we know that so much of about health comes down to our gut bacteria, and the details are not yet well understood. This is groundbreaking as one of the first studies to look at the connection to a high-fat diet. Still a lot of unknowns and details for researchers to explore, but what is known so far doesn’t look good for the high-fat camp.
In the study you mention, they used Soybean oil which is high in saturated fat. Wonder if that is the reason they obtained the bad outcome. Here is an article that says that saturated fats are bad for gut bacteria:
Edit: Wait, I may be wrong about Soybean Oil being high in saturated. There are 2.1 grams per tablespoon.
This doesn’t prove anything, but it is interesting. Looks like society is changing its attitude on fat.
This recent article says the price of high fat items like avocados, olives, and butter is rising due to increasing demand.
Let me just briefly point out some things which are perhaps so obvious that they often get overlooked.
First of all, the genetic contribution to your body weight found from twin studies seems to be around 80%. This makes body weight one of the most strongly genetically correlated traits there is. That doesn’t mean you can’t change it… just that it will be hard.
Second of all, different populations of people around the world have very different inherited abilities to digest food. Sami people in the arctic generally never lose their ability to digest milk, while other populations lose it just after infancy. Some of the fastest developments in human genetics in the last few millennia have been an ever widening of people’s abilities to digest a variety of foods.
My point is that there is NOT one ‘universal diet’ that is good for everyone and it is likely that there never will be. Take all the studies and correlations with many grains of salt because the people being tested may not be like you. Think of them as advice, try things out, and most of all listen closely to what your own body is telling you about whether the advice is good advice for you.
In the same wise, there really is no point arguing with someone else that your diet which works great for you should of course work for them, or vice versa that someone else’s diet which is working great for them cannot possibly be doing so. Human bodies are absurdly complex. If someone found something that works, give them a big high-five! Yay!
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