UK Ketogenic Soylent recipe


#1

http://www.makesoylent.com/recipes/definitely-not-people

It should be noted that I created this recipe in Excel using fairly custom micronutrient targets, especially for electrolytes (see high levels of Magnesium, Sodium, Potassium). This is partly to accomodate a Ketogenic diet (requires additional electrolytes due to being diuretic) and partly to keep all the other things in balance with the Keto electrolyte increases.

At some point in the future I plan on shifting over toward Pea Protein. If it tastes okay it will totally replace Soy as I can get it cheaper, and it has a lower proportion of Methionine.

There are a couple of ingredients here I’m fairly proud of finding, while of course I don’t recommend or condone their use, you may find them interesting:

  • Bulk peanuts. For protein alone, they are better value than powder isolates, then you get all the other stuff on top like fat, fibre, and B vitamins. This makes them amazing value, plus they’re delicious.
  • Potassium Sulphate. Avoids the necessity of using MSM or relying on proteins for Sulphur intake, while conveniently giving extra Potassium. Sold for aquariums (but I use a lab grade, not a technical/aquarium grade).
  • PegaVite. A multivitamin for horses. I discovered that you can get some health food-style products very cheap if you buy the horse version. The tub of PegaVite I paid £17.95 for will last me for 10 years at my current usage rate. My Flax Oil is also from an equine products site.

#2

You are eating a horse multivitamin? That’s awesome.

I definitely want to know if that works out ok.

My “Animal Pack” multivitamin cost almost $1.00 per day.


#3

I have to say, this is the most creative recipe I have seen. Have you actually consumed it for a significant period of time?


#4

Thanks for the input guys.

@joe1 I’ve been using the PegaVite for around two weeks now, all seems well. It is ever-so-slightly gritty (I suspect it uses Calcium Carbonate). Initially all then insoluble parts would sink to the bottom, so I needed to shake it up each time before drinking, but since adding Xanthan gum to thicken the insoluble parts just stay ‘afloat’ with no intervention necessary. The best thing about it really is that it is a (coarse) powder, so I can just mix it in with my protein and other stuff for the week, then forget about it. I also like that this gives me a gradual dose of vitamins across the day instead of a massive hit in the morning.

@DafJ I’ve actually not yet switched over to this precise recipe as I’m not yet using peanuts in the blend. I haven’t yet bought bulk peanuts as I’m currently trying to use up the last of my whey protein before buying even more stuff! I am however experimenting with producing peanut paste/butter with supermarket peanuts to see what works, as my first and second attempts didn’t produce very smooth results (not great for mixing into a drink, though it does sort of work). I think this is due to a tendency towards forming a ‘butter’ (which gets ‘stirred’) rather than a powder (which gets broken down further to dust). I plan to try blending peanuts with my soy protein powder to see if that allows a finer result to be produced. I also may switch out to almonds or cashews or something.


#5

Any info about the forms used for the horse multi? - would slightly worry me as its not for human consumption so maybe they can use inferior forms, and also perhaps be more slack regarding production quality / purity?. (could be I am just over optimistic about the safety of human multi’s though ;))

Also would be concerned about the very high 06 (presumably from the peanuts). I understand you have high 03 to somewhat balance, but would be slightly concerned as the information on this is a bit fuzzy (how important is total 06?), might also be some implications having so much 03.

The super high potassium and sodium seem a little odd, potentially dangerous. (I can’t imagine you would need more than 4500 potassium even on keto). Hard to find into on how much potassium is the safe max, but 4.5g is almost impossible to get from a regular diet (unless you spam bananas like a monkey).

If you have done your research, then ok (ignore me ;)) - but make sure you know what you are doing with those levels. Don’t mean to be a downer, just concerned.

Re Pea protein, I had a mix of hemp / rice / pea and it was vile. Also found rice on its own to be horrible (chalky). I would guess pea isn’t going to be pretty taste wise :wink:


#6

4.7 grams daily is actually the recommended amount for Potassium. See http://fnic.nal.usda.gov/dietary-guidance/dietary-reference-intakes/dri-reports (or as it should be called: More than you ever wanted to know about every damn micronutrient out there). It mentions that high Sodium results in calcium loss from the bones, but only with insufficient Potassium.

Relevant summary:

The AI [Acceptable Intake] for potassium is set at 4.7 g (120 mmol)/day based on blunting the severe salt sensitivity prevalent in AfricanAmerican men and decreasing the risk of kidney stones, as demonstrated in a 3-year double-blind controlled study. Blood pressure studies in nonhypertensive individuals (Table 5-3) are supportive of this level of intake as a means to lower blood pressure. Epidemiological studies also suggest that higher levels of potassium intake from foods are associated with decreased bone loss. It is important to note that the beneficial effects of potassium in these studies appears to be mainly from the forms of potassium that are associated with bicarbonate precursors—the forms found naturally in foods such as fruits and vegetables.


#7

@richardtkemp Two questions:

  • Does Potassium Sulphate taste like anything?
  • Aren’t you getting a lot of Sulfur? I was under the impression that Rob took 2 grams of MSM, not of Sulfur – although I can’t tell for sure.

Ten grams of sulfur from Methylsulfonylmethane cured me right away, and I now consume 2g/day. http://robrhinehart.com/?p=570


#8

Potassium sulphate is in the post, will report back. So far all potassium sources I’ve tried taste the same. I think the safe max for potassium is really high. Paleo man got something like 15g per day. More almost always equals better.

I don’t think there are actually issues with excess sulphur consumption. Supposedly its good for joints, and mine are crap, so overdose suits me fine.

As for bioavailability of horse multivit… No idea! I guess I will find out if I develop deficiency.


#9

I would definitively watch you potassium levels. Please check with your physician regularly.


#10

See table 3 on page 3, paleo daily potassium intake estimated at over 10 grams. This is roughly the intake level we evolved to thrive on. High potassium intake relative to sodium is very beneficial for health. Also, the body is very good at dumping excess potassium it doesn’t need.

Geneally, keto diets need extra electrolytes as the diet is quite diuretic (you pee and drink a lot, like with coffee and booze).


#11

The potassium sulphate seems promising. According to the EFSA the safe amount of sulphates is 6g/day. Potassium sulphate is 44.9% potassium and 55.1% sulphate ions, so one can take up to 10.89g/day before exceeding the safe limit. Thats 4.89g of potassium, quite a lot for most recipes.
If the taste is ok, it can be a great cheap potassium source. Here says that sulphates add a bitter taste to water.

@richardtkemp The amount of proteins is high for a ketogenic diet, if you are using it to gain lean mass its fine. Carbs too, but if it works for you its fine too.

The micros needs some improvements:

You have too much phosphorus relative to calcium, consider replacing the calcium diphosphate with another calcium supplement without phosphorus.
Same for copper and zinc, too much of one inhibits the absortion of the other.
The omega-6/omega-3 ratio is a bit high, and possibly the absolute amounts too. Consider reducing or eliminating the canola oil.
You have too much folate, and a small deficit of some vitamins, especially panthotenic acid.
Living in the UK you maybe should add some more vitamin D.
Some more fiber can be good too.

Regarding potassium and sodium, in my opinion these amounts are a bit high even for a ketogenic diet, but its your choice. The current amount of potassium sulphate, however, is too high. You should check the amount of sulphates in your local water too.


#12

I’m also in the UK and doing ketogenic.

ASDA sell own brand “Multivitamin and Minerals” £1.50 for 30 that contain the 100% RDA for everything except Magnesium and Calcium - 30% and no Potassium.

How do you squeeze out 0.02ml of Iodine into every mix?

Why the use of epsom salts and table salt?

MyProtein have started selling Peanut Paste. Also, if you want to go with Psyllium Husks for fibre, I just bought 5kg off ebay for £39.

I’m going with just Asda Extra Virgin Olive Oil for fats, is what you’re doing better? Should I add some coconut oil as well?

Also want to echo the previous comment - yours is indeed a highly creative mix!


#13

I also have looked at a few different supermarket multivits - way cheaper than branded ones! What I really wanted though was a powder I could mix in rather than a pill to take.

What I did with the iodine was just syringe a small quantity of it into my Nutrisorb (solution of trace minerals) in the correct dose ratio.

Epsom salts are for magnesium, table salt… for sodium!! See here.

I was excited about their nut stuff too until I realised it actually wasn’t all that cheap. The main thing that’s awesome about the peanuts is how cheap they are. I may not actually buy them in the end though as they just have so much omega 6 in…

Olive oil is good, I would recommend experimenting with a non-virgin (refined) oil instead as they have less of the overpowering olive flavour. Olive oil is great, coconut oil helps with ketosis though as it is 60% MCT oil, which is converted directly to ketones. Also it is all saturated fat, which is nice.

Thanks for your comments. Is your recipe available online?


#14

Regarding micros being a bit off… I copied all the ingredient quantities in from my excel spreadsheet, where I was using nutrient info from all sorts of sources, plus also fiddling around with target and max safe intakes based on things I read. The result of this is that the recipe as it stands on soylentmaker isn’t even close to the DRIs in some cases. Unfortunately I don’t have time at the moment to go through and find out why that is, but I trust I shan’t die in the next few weeks.

I’m pretty much at the limit of how much fibre I can use at the moment, if I add any more my mix pretty much solidifies. Xanthan gum is too strong a thickener for this use case, really. I have a vitD supplement in the post. I will let you all know how the Potassium Sulphate works when I get it, with any luck it should have arrived today.

Many thanks for your thorough examination though, I will get round to addressing the remaining points.


#15

tl;dr
Replaced peanuts with dessicated coconut. More costly but better overall.

Okay, so I’ve updated my recipe, taking some recommendations on board, I think it is a definite improvement. Folate is still high, but see here (if you’re curious) for why I don’t consider that a problem. Short form: high folate can mask a B12 deficiency, making it worse in the long run. Excess folate is actually beneficial, so long as you get plenty of B12 as well.

Now that I’ve removed the massive quantity of peanuts, I’m quite low on Biotin. I’ll look into supplementing this, but as I tend to drink milk, eat carrots, and eat peanut butter (all good sources) in addition to my soylent, it should be fine in the short term, at least.

Only other thing that looks too low is Chromium at 75ug, below target of 120ug. Thing is, other recipes have the target at 35ug, so really I’m not actually doing so badly here.
Overall I am again pleased with the result. The old recipe (for records sake it was loads of peanuts, no dried coconut, and slightly less oils) was good and it was very cheap, but this one should be slightly healthier. The reason for the significant price increase (£2.89 to £3.28 per day) is simply that bulk peanuts are incredible value, and I couldn’t find anything that really came close! 10p could be saved by eliminating the Coconut oil and increasing the dry coconut to compensate. I will try this and see how the texture is affected. Also, 40% of the dry coconut cost could be cut by ordering in bulk. I will do this once I’m confident in the recipe.

Its nice and ketogenic with only 11g of carbs (NB that on makesoylent I’m using net carbs, not the silly American gross carbs method) and plenty of fat. The macros are aimed at a moderately active young man of 80kg.


#16

For the curious, I got this response from Pegasus Health after inquiring about the possibility of high heavy metal levels in PegaVite, a concern raised by /u/po2gdHaeKaYk in a discussion on reddit.

We have PegaVite manufactured by the UK's leading specialist pre-mix company that is FEMAS registered and their factory is food safe etc.

The product is as high-spec as possible and I believe is one of the highest spec in its class.

No further info is provided on purity of metals etc is provided.