V.8 formula - discussion, questions, suggestions


#1

Rice protein - I think it’s a good idea: http://discourse.soylent.me/t/why-rice-protein/3680/2
MCT - isn’t it ‘too fast’?
MSM - doesn’t oat powder contain some form of bio-available Sulfur?
Creatine - I trust you with this one, but some people may not and will not like it.


#2

MCT is indeed fast, but is it really a problem? This depends upon your needs. If you get a ‘rush’ then sure, less fast energy, if you are physically active and into hard workout, its another story. If I had to choose between fast carb and MCT, I’d choose mct, its better for your liver too.

sulfur in oats? it makes sense but I haven’t seen any quantified nutritional analysis stating the actual content of sulfur in oats.
The best I found is this: "Oats, with the germ, endosperm and bran, provide sodium, potassium, calcium, magnesium, phosphorus, iron, copper, zinc, sulphur and chloride."
source: link

does anyone have any more clues?


#3

How are you dealing with the rice protein taste issues? - makes more sense to use it however, but afaik although it covers all essential amino acids? it might be lower that optimum in some. (I use a mix of rice, pea, hemp personally)

MCT - does powdered mct eliminate the ‘loose stools’ issue some people have with MCT oil? (1 tbsp is enough to send me to the toilet).

Although I personally disagree with this sentiment, using MCT you are opening yourselves up for criticism about using saturated fat. This may be an issue of quantities however, but as the only fat source outside of oat powder is the amount of mct quite high?

Phytic acid in the oat powder is still a concern imo.


#4

While MCT is a saturated fat, its processed differently by your body compared to the “bad” saturated fats (LCT). MCT is more and more being labelled as a “good” saturated fat as more studies are done.

I still have a mix of olive oil and coconut oil in my mix.


#5

I actually disagree. The rice protein isn’t complete. You will need to supplement some more amino acids for it to become complete.


#6

I agree with HarveyDesu that rice protein alone is not a good move. The a.a. profile of rice is not complete (deficient in lysine first, then tryptophan). A blend of grain and legume proteins would fix this.


#7

I say NO to rice protein. Aside from what others mention about it being an incomplete protein, it’s a common allergen (which I am allergic to so this is definitely personally biased - full disclosure!) :wink:

It seems like they’re trying to please the vegans with this formula - but honestly that should be a second stage objective. Most people just aren’t vegans - it’s just basic numbers. Make your best formula with the most nutrient dense and best tasting balance of ingredients. Then phase two start making your specialty items like organic and/or vegan & vegetarian etc. Just basic business sense really.

I’m not vegan, and most folks aren’t, and won’t care if there’s some animal products in there. I eat and enjoy eating cows and chickens and fish (oh my!) and yes I could kill my own food if need be (wouldn’t like doing so but I could), so why all the fuss for vegan stuff? I don’t get it. Lettuce and plants are all technically alive too but just because they aren’t cute and furry, there’s less of a fuss over killing plants for food? Heck they’ve even done studies where trees actually “screamed” so to speak after one of them was cut down with a chainsaw, when the chainsaw started up again the remaining surrounding trees freaked out according to the instruments they were using so everything we eat is alive (barring minerals etc.) Just because they aren’t mammals doesn’t mean all the vegans out there aren’t consuming living flesh of one kind or another…

Anyhow, my 2 cents… :smiley:


#8

I agree and feel your pain.
Julio posted this a little while ago:

Minus your allergic reactions to rice protein, it could be used as a possible source, as long as it was mixed with other things.
There are a few posts floating around about allergens and such, and how the processed forms of the ingredients do not contain these. I am unsure how accurate those are, but I am curious. So it may be possible for you to consume rice protein without any reactions? But please do not take my word for it, or test without safe guards in place.


#9

Is there EPA/DHA content in it? Talking about the essential om3 fatty-acids.


#10

EPA/DHA definitely included. We are probably going to go with a blend of Rice and Pea proteins, to ensure sufficient lysine content.


Chronic Migraines and Soylent
#11

Going with a reputable copacker is a good idea. It gives me confidence paying a premium for the product over what I might be able to make it for myself.


#12

How about the possible manganese overdose from oats? I tossed oats from my recipe as it gave me 8mg total manganese instead of desirable 2mg. Long-term sideeffects are not really nice.


#13

I don’t get it. Lettuce and plants are all technically alive too but just because they aren’t cute and furry, there’s less of a fuss over killing plants for food?

I agree it should be a phase 2 goal, but your comment isn’t very sensitive. It has nothing to do with cute and furry. I’m not a vegan NOR a vegetarian, for the record, but it’s important to understand the reasons why many people are:


#14

You’re right it’s not very sensitive and it wasn’t meant to be; it’s meant to simply be realistic. I do understand the reasons, I simply disagree with them is all. We evolved eating meat…

Don’t get me wrong I’m a strong believer in to each their own, but going by straight numbers and business reality, most folks just aren’t vegans or vegetarians so it makes more sense to cater first to the non-vegetarians and such. That’s all I was saying… :smiley:


#15

Actually, for efficiency reasons, it’s easier to start out by minimizing animal products in the mix, if one plans to go to a vegetarian or vegan mix later. MUCH easier to balance things and keep a consistent flavor and texture.


#16

We’ll be testing the final formula to make sure that there isn’t an excessive level of anything.


#17

That’s right, Lisa – don’t let the PC’s push you around. Over on the CRON Facebook group the bloody vegans are taking over. They seem to think they are bettah than other folks, and you’re not doing CRON right if you aren’t vegan as well! I hate that, and I think the late Dr. Roy Walford (founder of the CRON movement) would, too.

I’m an animal lover myself, but I think PETA and their ilk are just plain nuts, crackpots – you look at their vegan pages on the PETA site and they are pushing fake meat!! What kind of insanity is that, where you imitate what you profess to deplore for the strongest of ethical reasons?

For better or worse, we happen to live on a planet where the evolution of life has decreed that living creatures subsist by eating one another. It’s weird, I guess, but how are you going to argue with an evolutionary process? If you don’t like it, tough, but don’t go around beating up on other people who are more adjusted to the situation. That’s how I see it, at least. Off-topic as hell on the soylent list, but I’d sure hate to see the Vegan Flu take hold here – it has already wrecked the CRON lists for me.

You don’t know how happy it made me to see someone bring up the small fact that plants are living creatures, too! For many years I’ve thought that was a logical flaw in the whole foundation of animal-rights/veganism; nice to know the thought has occurred to others.


#18

Of course PETA would push fake meat. “Fake” meat would be genetically the same as real meat but without ANY of the ethical problems that PETA is opposing. How is that insane? It’s 100% logical. They’re not opposed to the meat, they’re opposed to the mistreatment of animals and their slaughter to get that meat.


#19

Yes- 100% agreed. Not sure if they went with the vegan protein source for that purpose though. Maybe it was allergen related? Rice allergies are considerably more rare than whey allergies, for example.

I’m encouraged by their reply in the Graze.com post I made in this category- that they’re aiming for personalized formulations. That way if you’re allergic to rice, you get another protein source. If you’re trying to put on weight, you get more fats and proteins, etc.


#20

To me it seems rather simple and clear. If you are a no-animal-products-of-any-kind vegetarian, then it would be logical to promote the delights of a vegetarian diet composed of whole grains, roots and tubers (carrots, turnips, potatoes, sweet potatoes, etc), green leafy vegetables (kale, collars, mustard, chard, etc.), fruits, and nuts. Instead – please go and LOOK at PETA’s page on “vegan” diet. If what you push is imitation cheese, imitation sausage, imitation hamburgers and so forth, then you are implicitly saying, “look, we really want to eat cheese, sausage and hamburgers, that’s the food we love, but we have this ethical hangup about killing or exploiting animals, so because WE ARE BETTAH we nobly forego the foods we really want to eat and we settle for ersatz, fake, hoked-up imitations, in fact we put a whole lot of energy into creating “vegan” recipes that are just like those animal-product recipes!” And I affirm that I do not think that is quite sane.

Did you know that PETA funds animal shelters where the animals are put down when they can’t find homes for them? PETA’s avowed goal is to eliminate domestic animals of all kinds, livestock, pets, the lot. They want no more domestic animals. And they will kill animals in service of that goal.

We are way off-topic here. I don’t expect you to agree with me. Let’s drop it, please. I would prefer not to pollute soylent discourse with a PETA argument.