What is your Nootropic Stack?


#44

Ha, wouldn’t have expected “answering a bunch of emails” to be categorized as mentally stimulating. Technically it is, I suppose…


#45

Read it again, he is saying that it is not stimulating.


#46

I’ve not been on my stack in awhile (I get tired of the measuring-out routine, capping pills, etc), so without listing dosages, my stack ingredients typically are:

  1. Adrafinil - prodrug to create Modafinil via liver - wakefulness promoter, not a stimulant
  2. ALCAR - Acetyl L-Carnitine - increases energy production, indirect cholinergic
  3. Oxiracetam - for when I need to focus
  4. L-Theanine - I generally take Theanine if I’m taking a stimulant, such as 5-hour Energy
  5. DMAE - cholinergic, and as such I usually try to avoid pairing with ALCAR, unless I’m also taking Oxiracetam

There are a few other supplements that I try on occasion, but this list above is what I’ve found to have the most significant and consistent impact for me.


#47

Ah, correct you are sir. My brain read the “if” as “unless”. I’ll go with the “it’s early” excuse :-X


#48

Theanine is fantastic. One of the safest “supplements” around.


#49

I am also a big fan of theanine. My current stack is oxiracetam, theanine, caffeine, and alpha gpc. Intense focus once you dial in your dosage.


#50

I saw some scary anti-Nootropic videos on YouTube and they convinced me, so I’m abandoning my brief fling with Piracetam + Choline. These things are infinitely more benevolent than the classic speed I’m familiar with from my hippie phase, but I have a similar attitude to them, which is that millions of years of evolution do a much better job of supplying needed materials to one’s brain than humans do when they take some chemical trying to enhance some aspect of brain function. I may return to them at some time, but that’s it for now.


#51

For now, anyway :wink: We’ll get the hang of this brain modification stuff some day… hopefully…


#52

I’d like to see those videos and hear their case against nootropics. I’m open to solid evidence, but I completely disagree with that point of view. Evolution is simply competition for survival between mutations of species, evolved systems are only necessarily as good as they need to be to die less. It falls under the naturalist fallacy to assume that evolution beats science. Because chemicals? It just doesn’t follow.


#53

I found them by going to YouTube and typing in Nootropics. Maybe I was just lucky to find them.

I always do quite a bit of research before getting very involved in these kinds of things. I fondly remember all the LSD books I read.

Evolution is a mode of testing. Reinventing the wheel is a cliche as a bad thing because evolution already took care of that. We still don’t understand the brain that well.


#54

Geneven, I’d like to see those videos too, and I didn’t find any persuasively critical ones, at least on a quick search. Would you be willing to link to one or two?

Thanks!


#55

Astonishingly enough, I didn’t memorize the urls. I am not interested in going on the firing line for what I consider convincing. You’d think that the prevailing attitude of hostility to dissenters here would make people cooperative, but funny thing, it doesn’t.

It is easy enough to imagine the arguments against nootropics anyway. It is obvious to me that altering one’s brain chemistry comes with certain risks. In my acid- dropping days I felt the risks were acceptable, and I am still glad I took LSD and similar drugs many times. I didn’t find the benefits I experienced from the month or two I took one of the most popular nootropic combinations that great.


#56

While I agree that evolution is pathetic compared to science and human inventiveness, I think what @geneven is trying to say is that we aren’t definitively there yet in respect to neurological modification. fMRIs and MEG’s only offer a glance at brain activity and the most powerful supercomputers on Earth have trouble simulating more than a few seconds of it.

We just don’t have the observational tools to know how these things are working, and why they work for some and not others. At this point, our best methods have been going off anecdotal evidence and theory and hoping not so many people have negative effects that we have to ban them altogether and go back to the drawing board.

In the videos I’ve seen on YouTube, most of the reviewers were negative, neutral or only noticed slight improvements using unscientific measures. Nobody was ecstatically seeing results. A few reviewers kind of got out of hand with the whole thing and started listing off nootropic “blends” with like 15 different ingredients which… doesn’t seem terribly smart. One of the more popular blends is abbreviated “CILTEP” and is based on completely unfounded claims and misunderstandings of how the chemistry works on the brain. It isn’t particularly dangerous, but it’s not the best use of money either.


#57

Geneven, I’m so sorry, I certainly didn’t mean to come off as hostile. I too have a healthy skepticism about nootropics, and I don’t see how anyone couldn’t, given (as you and sylass94 have pointed out) how little we know about the brain (and thus what crude tools these are), the borderline efficacy of many of these drugs, the dangers of overdosing, the possibility (again because we know so little) of long-term deleterious effects we don’t yet know about, etc. It’s very much caveat emptor, and I think we’re all just trying to do our due diligence and figure out how much (if any) we’re willing to experiment on ourselves, given unknown risks and possibly small or nonexistent benefits.

It’s your use of the word “scary” to characterize the youtube videos you saw that pricked up my ears, which to me suggests that someone has come upon genuinely concerning negative effects that I may not yet be aware of, but I’d really like to be. If you might be willing to share but don’t want to put yourself on the “firing line,” please feel free to PM me (and agreed, youtube URLs are a pain, but they should be in your watch history). But I guess I would argue that it would be a community service to let everyone see what you found concerning, and who cares if others are persuaded or not? We’re all adults, making our own decisions, and in an area as murky as this, each person’s assessment of risks and benefits and the balance between them will be pretty unique, and if people disagree with you, f**k 'em!


#58

Fortunately (I think) there is no shortage of idiots taking unsupervised “mega doses” of every type of nootropic out there, demonstrating that there is no acute toxicity. At worst, one could overdose on racetams as easily as they could on homeopathic solutions.


#59

Do tell


#60

Isn’t homeopathy the one where they dilute like a “drop” of something with tons and tons of water? It’d be really hard to overdose on that… you’d OD on the water first.


#61

Same goes for liquid psilocybin. The water would kill you faster.


#62

I usually cycle mine; caffeine+theanine is a pretty steady constant but I cycle through CDP choline + aniracetam as it has no interactions with my epilepsy medication which is also in the racetam family (leviteracetam). I don’t really experiment with noots that aren’t racetams due to concerns about seizure triggers, and so far it’s been pretty successful.


#63

I’ve been stacking (phenylpiracetam) with modafinil, CDP-choline, and curcumin + cacao and it works extremely well.