What supplements will provide ALL of the oil's value?


#21

Wow, interesting. I take a prescription fish oil, Lovaza, and I take 4 capsules/day. Each 1-gram capsule of LOVAZA delivers approximately 465 mg of EPA and 375 mg of DHA. You had me worried for a moment, so I had to look up the recommended daily amount and found this:

People with heart disease may benefit from consuming higher amounts of omega-3 fats consisting of approximately 1 gram per day of combined EPA and DHA, recommends the American Heart Association.

My doctor has me taking it because of a family history of heart disease and high cholesterol.


#22

The only supplement I could see that provide vegan EPA in large doses (600mg a capsule) no longer appear to be made. In pretty much all other cases, DHA is combined with EPA and DHA levels are much higher.

I’m looking forward to Soylent finding a vegan solution to this, as they’ve suggested they will in the near future.


#23

Yes. It is prescribed in much higher doses than what is normally recommended for CVD risk factors such as high cholesterol. I did most of my research on it because of this.

There’s a reason why Lovaza is a prescribed medical pill and even it only has 465/375mg per pill.

Why did I have you worried, by the way?


#24

So okay. It is just hard to find a good solutions, if you don’t tell the reason you don’t want to mix the oil in the mixture.

You need to get the fat in somehow. So here are your other options, if you don’t want to mix it:

  1. Swallow the canola oil, pure, 17 ml per soylent meal
  2. Make some canola oil tablet yourself, by buying tablets, and put canola oil in it.
    Again around 17 ml per soylent meal. Maybe you can find canola oil tablets, but I’ve never seen them. Olive oil will also work.

If you refuse to eat DHA/EPA, then you are better off with canola oil. There is quite some omega 3 in canola oil, and in theory your body should be able to convert that to DHA/EPA (except if you have eskimo blood).

Most vegans will get almost no DHA/EPA in their diet. People think this is a downside of a vegan diet, but I don’t think you will die from it :wink:


#25

Just the amount I’m getting per day with 4 capsules vs. what your Nordic Naturals had. I’m good now, thanks!


#26

The reasons are personal, my partner has had problems with oil added to drinks in the past and was unwilling to risk problems again. I really just don’t see how the reasons are relevant as we are not looking for input on the reasons and more than we’re looking for input from foodies on whether or not we should consume Soylent. I stated a request for a very specific solution, simple as that. No offense taken here, I just was kinda thinking I wouldn’t get any “whyning” from this particular forum crowd.

That being said, after some discussion we concluded that adding canola oil was probably going to make an important difference to the mix, and that it will be worth trying. So that’s what we’ve now done.


#27

Sorry if we seem a bit pushy. The reasons behind the aversion could very well dictate the suggestions you receive. If they can’t consume oil in liquid form, that still potentially permits the addition of powdered fats that are soluble in water. Aversion to any non-plant matter fats makes it very difficult in liquid form, but a combination of nuts would do quite well for a baked soylent. I’m partial to using walnuts as an additive for a sweet soylent.

We’re not trying to push “real food,” but the fundamental chemistry behind the need for lipids is very real, and adding actual oil is the surest (and cheapest) way to get what you need.


#28

The way i see it, the reasons are immaterial as they don’t change the request, which was a non-animal-based supplement solution to getting the nutrients needed without having to add oil into the Soylent mix. Seemed pretty clear and specific to me. The reasons why this requirement existed don’t change anything, so continually being asked to explain myself is really very much the same as having to explain myself regarding food in general, hence the comparison I made.

As for these nutrients being “required”, I still have my doubts only because I’ve lived my entire 41 years without ever consuming any fish (or meat in general for that matter) whatsoever nor taking any supplements until a few years ago. I am not vegan however nor am I any other label that I have ever heard (lacto-ovo, vegetarian, etc. etc. etc.) I’m just me, my partner is just her, and we have our specific requirements with regards to what we eat/drink that are strictly personal and have nothing at all to do with health, politics, or social norms. Adding canola oil seems like it will help with the general consistency of the drink, and I suspect our current Omega 3-6-9 supplements, possibly with a dosage increase, will be “good enough” in the DHA/EPA departments. So that’s what we’re going to do, in which case the original request of this post is not really relevant anymore. At least not for me at this time.


#29

I don’t think you need omega 3-6-9 supplement. Because in some way Canola oil is a omega 3-6-9 supplement.

Canola oil contains the following fatty acids:

  • omega 9: oleic acid 63%, gondoic acid 1.9%
  • omega 6: Linoleic acid (LA) 20%
  • omega 3: α-Linolenic acid (ALA) 8.6%

% of total fatty acids. It also contains some saturated fatty acids (6%).
So if your omega 3-6-9 contains EPA/DHA, then it would be a good addition, to canola oil, but if contains fatty acids like oleic acid, LA, ALA, then it is not necesarry to supplement with this if you include canola oil.

It is just, if you don’t tell it, then people are going to guess, that is just how people are.

Btw, maybe this irrelevant. But my mum has real problems digesting fatty meals. So, when I was experimentating with soylent, I let her drink my soylent for a couple of days. I was just curious how she would digest it. But she didn’t digest it well. I was thinking it could be the fat. There where drops of oils would floating around in the soylent. I tried adding an egg yolk, to make it a nice emulsions. Together with the egg yolk, she digested it perfectly. Actually, she able to digest fat much better in regular meals, if I will add an raw egg yolk to it. I think that lectichin (doesn’t matter if it comes from soy or egg) is really helpfull for people having troubles digesting fat.


#30

As I said, snack on a mixture of fresh nuts to get your needed mix of omegas without adding any oils into your mix. You’ll have to do a little bit of research to make sure you have the right ratios, but it should be relatively straightforward.


#31

Or decide they don’t have time for guessing games and simply not bother trying to help. I’ve had enough experience playing the “I’m not going to tell you my real requirements… I’ll just tell you I want X and then complain when your offered solution doesn’t solve my actual problem Y” game professionally, I don’t care to do it on my own time.

Example: “drink a shot of oil once daily” is a solution to the stated goal of not mixing oil in the soylent, but if the real problem is, say, an issue with the consistency or taste of liquid oil, that suggestion doesn’t solve it – it’s likely far worse!

If your reasons are personal and you don’t want to discuss them, ok, but then don’t expect much help and the best suggestions, either. You’ll always get better results stating the actual problem you’re trying to solve.


#32

I don’t recommend this unless you’re trying to hit high calorie goals. Nuts are very calorie dense.


#33

Haha, what do you think of oil? That is calorie dense. Nuts are for less energy dense. But most nuts have too much omega 6 and to little omega 3. And they are hard to digest, I read a study that humans digest less than 50 percent of the fats of oil. If you want to get 50 ml of oil from nuts you need to eat quite some nuts.


#34

Not a problem if you’re omitting the oil in your soylent to begin with, which is more calorically dense. All you need to do is adjust your intake to accommodate. Easy in a DIY recipe, but a bit harder to manage in the official Soylent.


#35

What? I don’t understand this post. You just validated my point with the last half. Nuts have a much lower concentration of Omega3/6, but is also calorie dense. Hence, getting your needs from nuts can easily push you too far over your calorie limits. You can drink a shot of fish oil for about ~100 calories containing nearly 2g of EPA/DHA. It’s worth the calories. Try getting that from nuts. Think about it this way, calories you consume of EPA/DHA is a foregone conclusion, talking about calorie density of the actual nutrient/supplement is pointless. Talking about calorie density of a food you are consuming to obtain a nutrient it contains is important because concentration is always ‘low’ in comparison.

But you know that. So I don’t know how to respond. I’m too baffled to even be offended by the condescending tone.


#36

… I don’t understand your post at all… Haha

50 gram of oil, that is what you need. Your post doesn’t make sense. Fat is also a nutrient, that you need. You are only talking about EPA and DHA. You need also something that can replace 50ml of canola oil. Nuts will be able to do that. But the ratio of omega 3 omega 6 may be less optimal. If you go for a mix of macadamia nuts and some wallnuts, it will be quite like canola oil

Of course, nuts don’t contain epa/dha, but they contain plenty of omega 6 and walnuts contain plenty of omega 3


#37

From the original post, what the canola oil provides is ALA’s for Omega 3’s. You’re aiming to replace the nutrients within the context of Soylent. Not every single thing Canola Oil gives you.

Since, again, we’re talking about this in the context of the original poster’s needs of fulfilling what Soylent has deemed the lacking nutrients in vegan soylent, bringing up nuts in and of itself was not really relevant. But, let’s be generous and calculate the conversion from ALA (the omega 3 source in walnuts) to EPA/DHA. So again, it’s about how much of the requisite nutrient you’re getting per calorie. So in my example, I said you could get about 2g of the required Omega 3’s in 100 calories (ok 1.6g in 90 calories) with just fish oil. So if you want the exact numbers and comparison:

Based on Soylent’s numbers, we need about 1.92g total of EPA+DHA.

If you assume a 25% conversion rate from ALA to EPA/DHA (which Rob did in one of his previous posts but actual conversion of ALA is 15% for DHA and 5% for EPA) we get that we need 7.68g of ALA. 1oz of walnuts contains 2.5g of ALA and 185 calories which means we’d need 3.1oz of walnuts or 573.5 calories.

With fish oil, we get 108 calories for the 1.92g. With a better ratio for EPA:DHA of 1.39:1 which is closer to the requisite ratio of 1.49:1. (Based on the conversion rate, the ratio for nuts would be 3:1)

Hence my original caution of just using nuts as a snack to make up for however much Omega 3’s were absent (which based on the email Soylent sent out was about 1.92g of Omega 3). The calorie value is NOT made up for by excluding the oil.


#38

I think we are on some different brain waves. Are you aware that the it is recommended to get 20 to 35 of your calories from fat? That is 400 to 700 cal from fat. It seems like you think fats are only important for omega 3 and omega 6. But most of your fat should be mono unsaturated, and you also need some saturated fats.


#39

I don’t understand why you keep talking about nutrients from fat when we’re talking about helping the OP make up for what’s lacking in the vegan Soylent which, as he posted, is:

.77g DHA
1.15 g EPA
48g unsaturated fat

The 48g of unsaturated fat is not specific about type, and eating nuts for those 48g of unsaturated fat is fine and a very easy fix, but that wasn’t the original suggestion. But the original suggestion was talking about the nuts for just Omega 3/6’s (in addition to the Canola Oil which the OP had conceded to taking), which is specifically stated in terms of EPA/DHA. Using generous terms for conversion, if you just wanted to get your full conversion (no canola oil) from nuts, you’d overshoot your calories by ~200. The reality is it’ll be more than that if it’s used as an Omega3 add-on to canola oil as was originally suggested.


#40

I thought you responded to this suggestion of not adding any oil, and getting all of the fats from nuts…